Pool Panel Supply 680.25 - 2005

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Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Here is my question. the house is new, the pool and garage are existing.

A contractor has supplied a new pool panel, in the garage with a feeder. The feeder is installed from the service panel in the basement of the house. He installed SER through the basement, transitioned to a raceway underground out to the garage (where the pool panel is located). His inspector instructed him about the use of SER underground and referred him to 680.25 for the proper wiring methods permitted for pool feeders - which does not include SER through the basement.

The contractor explained to me how difficult it would be to use one of the wiring methods in 680.25(A) in the basement and while he was explaining this to me I had an idea (yeah, I know you can smell the smoke as my brain is trying to function :wink: ). I told him to leave the SER installed through the basement and install a fused type disconnect where the SER leaves the basement and is installed in the PVC raceway. (he is removing the SER from the raceway and installing THHN/THWN conductors) I mentioned to him to do this, so now the feeder for the pool starts at the new fused disconnect located in the basement of the house, just as the conductors leave the house and go underground outside to the garage. This is all new wiring.

My question is, does this installation comply with the requirements of 680.25?
 
No. 680.25 applies to ANY feeder on the supply side of the pool branch circuit panelboard.

AND, the EGC must be insulated from the service to the branch circuit panel per 680.25(B), which can't be done with SER cable.
 
Count me in as well, "...any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment"
 
there are two feeders, one complies and one does not, the SER feeder in the house is still part of the feeder to the pool panel, since is not existing it does not comply, just had a similar situation
 
bphgravity said:
AND, the EGC must be insulated from the service to the branch circuit panel per 680.25(B), which can't be done with SER cable.
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Use 3 phase SER 4 insulated conductors....
 
Install a 4 circuit panel and to make everybody happy install an unneeded receptacle on a 20 amp breaker just under it.Now i have a subpanel and not a disconnect.Legal but really dont like it
 
you cannot use SER cable even if it has an insulated equipment ground, look at 680.25 (A),



changing to a 4 circuit sub panel still would not comply
 
I will never understand why so many people have so much trouble with this artical.

(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding terminal of the pool panelboard and the grouonding terminal of the applicable service equipment.

We all know that the Service equipment is the main disconect. The grounding conductor shall be insulated. We have 12 electric inspectors and even they cannot agree on this.
 
Cavie said:
I will never understand why so many people have so much trouble with this artical.

(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding terminal of the pool panelboard and the grouonding terminal of the applicable service equipment.

We all know that the Service equipment is the main disconect. The grounding conductor shall be insulated. We have 12 electric inspectors and even they cannot agree on this.
Click to expand...

I bet it is hard when you are always smarter than everyone else. :grin:
 
Energize said:
I bet it is hard when you are always smarter than everyone else. :grin:
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Nope. A long way away from being the sharpest when it comes to the code. This seems to be one of those articals that most people try to read into it what they want it so say to fit thier needs. I think it is is one of the better written codes and English AIN'T one of my better subjucts..
 
Cavie said:
I will never understand why so many people have so much trouble with this artical.

(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding terminal of the pool panelboard and the grouonding terminal of the applicable service equipment.
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Again I disagree with you. An EGC can end up at the applicable service equipment via other subpanels

Where does it say "without joint, splice, or termination in another PNL supplied with a EGC from its source"?

As Pierre stated, see the def of feeder.
 
pool supply

pool supply

Use 3 phase SER 4 insulated conductors.This is not correct, i think you need conduit to supply side in new installation for pools or spas as per parts 1 and 2 in 680
 
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I don?t see how breaking a feeder up into multiple feeders would change anything.
The requirements of 680.25 starts at the service equipment. If you pass through 10 panels to get to the pool panel all of theses feeders would need to comply.

680.25 Feeders
These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system.
 
mpd said:
you cannot use SER cable even if it has an insulated equipment ground, look at 680.25 (A),



changing to a 4 circuit sub panel still would not comply
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Did the forum ever decide against putting SER in conduit. I know we had that discussion many times.

680.25 (A) only talks about the conduits it does not specify wire type. So where does 680.25 (A) say SER is not allowed as a feeder?
 
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