Pool Project...

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1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
So, pools are not my strong suit but I would like to improve on that. Situation, 100A Panel on separate structure, Pool House, at a SFD is currently fed with 4 conductors, bare ground not connected, AL, in 2? PVC from House to the Pool House.

We are under the 2008 cycle

I have about 90? inside the House from the Main panel then outside for about 60? to the Pool House underground. There are currently all sorts of phone and other metal between the House and the Pool House.

My question:
Can I run a #2 CU SER inside the House to a box where I transition to the outside then pull 3 #3 THHN/THWN and an INSULATED #8 THHN/THWN underground to the Pool House panel protected by a 100A 2p breaker in the Main panel?

Drive a ground rod at the Pool House and, of course, separate the Neutral and EGCs. The Pump Motor is hardwired and there is no bonding jumper from the pump motor to the panel or Equipotential grid. I think there should be.

I look forward to your help.
 
No, You must have an insulated ground the entire way 680.25. Look at the approved wiring methods

Now if you use the existing feeders you may be okay to leave it as it is.
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
No, You must have an insulated ground the entire way 680.25. Look at the approved wiring methods

Now if you use the existing feeders you may be okay to leave it as it is.
Click to expand...

My problem, as I see it, is that the feed in the House to the LB outside is only a 3 wire SE. Someone ran a 4 wire setup from the LB to the Pool House panel and did not use the Ground.
 
As Dennis mentions, the answers will depend a lot on what is "existing".
Pool ? Pool House ?
Also, as he stated, if you are installing a new feeder in the house, the equipment ground must be insulated.
If it's an existing pool and the pump motor does not have a connection to the equipotential grid that would be a HUGE red flag as to whether the e.q. grid even exists. If the pool is existing, my first step would be to try and see if it was ever inspected and see if you have the grid. (a first quick step is to check for continuity between exposed metallic parts)
 
augie47 said:
As Dennis mentions, the answers will depend a lot on what is "existing".
Pool ? Pool House ?
Also, as he stated, if you are installing a new feeder in the house, the equipment ground must be insulated.
If it's an existing pool and the pump motor does not have a connection to the equipotential grid that would be a HUGE red flag as to whether the e.q. grid even exists. If the pool is existing, my first step would be to try and see if it was ever inspected and see if you have the grid. (a first quick step is to check for continuity between exposed metallic parts)
Click to expand...

Spot on Augie...
 
1793 said:
I think I might have mixed Articles. I looked at 680.21(4) for the interior uninsulated portion.
Click to expand...
680.21(4) is to the motor not the feeder.

There is an exception to allow a 3 wire feeder if it is existing however, if you mess with any part of it then I believe you would need to upgrade. I would check with the ahj.

Is it possible to run PVC inside the house to the service panel?
 
augie47 said:
As Dennis mentions, the answers will depend a lot on what is "existing".
Pool ? Pool House ?
Also, as he stated, if you are installing a new feeder in the house, the equipment ground must be insulated.
If it's an existing pool and the pump motor does not have a connection to the equipotential grid that would be a HUGE red flag as to whether the e.q. grid even exists. If the pool is existing, my first step would be to try and see if it was ever inspected and see if you have the grid. (a first quick step is to check for continuity between exposed metallic parts)
Click to expand...

Pool is about 15 to 20 yrs old. I really doubt I can find out about the original install. I will try to post a few photos I took today, as soon as I get the battery charged. There is a heater but it does not appear to be plumbed(?) in and all can see is exposed PVC piping.
 
This entire thing is a mess. Since there are phone wires going to the pool house then 3 wires is not permitted thus you need to redo the wiring so that there is 4 wires.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
680.21(4) is to the motor not the feeder.

There is an exception to allow a 3 wire feeder if it is existing however, if you mess with any part of it then I believe you would need to upgrade. I would check with the ahj.

Is it possible to run PVC inside the house to the service panel?
Click to expand...

That was where I thought I went wrong.

I think I might be able to run the inside in PVC, so if I do that then I need to "correct" the ouside as well?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
This entire thing is a mess. Since there are phone wires going to the pool house then 3 wires is not permitted thus you need to redo the wiring so that there is 4 wires.
Click to expand...

Yes it is, and to top it off I was stung in the corner of my mouth by a Wasp when I took the cover off of the pool panel, what a way to start your day.
 
1793 said:
Yes it is, and to top it off I was stung in the corner of my mouth by a Wasp when I took the cover off of the pool panel, what a way to start your day.
Click to expand...

sometimes when HE speaks, we don't listen :)

My suggestion, considereing it is existing, is to meet with the inspector
(actually my first suggestion is to run).
Be prepared to show him continuity between metal pool pieces such as
diving board/ladder feet.
 
continuinty ??

continuinty ??

Would this work? Run extenision cord from recptacle to pool ladder &
use wiggy to check between ground on x cord & pool ladder?


Is there a more professional method for this situation?

Thanks for your input.
 
As I remember even if this feeder was installed prior to 2008 a separate insulated EGC was required. I believe 680.25 required an insulated EGC for separate buildings.
 
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