pool pump from hell....

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Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
today i went to troubleshoot a pool pump that was shocking
the homeowner.

pump motor had jumpers set for 240.

it was on a 2P 15 amp breaker. zinsco circa 1960's.
house is knob and tube, from 1923 ish.

one of the hot wires and the ground were reversed
inside the peckerhead. yes, the case of the motor,
the pump housing, and all the water was at 115 volts
potential. had been that way for three years since
they had someone replace the pump.

the pump was running on 115 volts, with jumpers set
for 240, for three years.

and it didn't trip the 2P 15 amp zinsco breaker.
amazingly enough, it didn't burn out the pump motor either.

i could run my voltage pen along the PVC leaving the pump,
and it glowed brightly. i put a 2k shunt DVM between the pump
housing, and a lead dipped into the pool water, and it was 114 volts.
this wasn't a static or ghost voltage. it was measured across a 2k ohm load.

their was a purge hose with a hose bib on top of the discharge pipe from
the pump, and if you opened the hose bib so the water coming out of the
pump came out the hose, and it splashed on you, it would shock you,
according to the homeowner. measuring from the bronze hose bib teed off
the plastic pipe, to the pool water, was 115 volts.

and nobody got killed. three years.
 
Fulthrotl said:
today i went to troubleshoot a pool pump that was shocking
the homeowner.

pump motor had jumpers set for 240.

it was on a 2P 15 amp breaker. zinsco circa 1960's.
house is knob and tube, from 1923 ish.

one of the hot wires and the ground were reversed
inside the peckerhead. yes, the case of the motor,
the pump housing, and all the water was at 115 volts
potential. had been that way for three years since
they had someone replace the pump.

the pump was running on 115 volts, with jumpers set
for 240, for three years.

and it didn't trip the 2P 15 amp zinsco breaker.
amazingly enough, it didn't burn out the pump motor either.

i could run my voltage pen along the PVC leaving the pump,
and it glowed brightly. i put a 2k shunt DVM between the pump
housing, and a lead dipped into the pool water, and it was 114 volts.
this wasn't a static or ghost voltage. it was measured across a 2k ohm load.

their was a purge hose with a hose bib on top of the discharge pipe from
the pump, and if you opened the hose bib so the water coming out of the
pump came out the hose, and it splashed on you, it would shock you,
according to the homeowner. measuring from the bronze hose bib teed off
the plastic pipe, to the pool water, was 115 volts.

and nobody got killed. three years.
Click to expand...

It's never a matter of "IF" it is always a matter of "WHEN"
 
At a customers house and needed the restroom. Owners told me not to pull the chain on the fixture and touch the sink at the same time. No EG and hot pinched between wall fixture canopy. 30 years or more.

I am totally amazed that more people don't die or more houses burn.
 
The pump would run at the correct speed because it is still 60Hz, but would have half the torque, thus half the HP. If the installer then adjusted the flow down with a valve to avoid the pump tripping off on OL, or if the pump was seriously over sized to begin with, it could theoretically run like that forever. More likely it WAS running into overload, but the timer would take it off line before it tripped, or it was tripping off on OL and nobody knew it, then it would reset itself when it cooled down (assuming Klixons in the motor as OL protection). It would be highly unlikely that the breaker would ever trip, because at the low voltage and low torque, the current would be low as well, so it was never stressing the breaker itself.

Anyone jumping/diving into the pool, or in any other way not making contact with anything at a different ground potential AS the pool, would be elevated to the same potential and not be shocked. It would only be when there was a difference, such as the hose bib coming from a different area, that they would be exposed to the difference, and even then only the difference in the ground potential. I'm not saying it was OK, I'm only explaining why nobody got killed. Yet.
 
Last edited:
zbang said:
I'm amazed that so many people put up with this stuff. Yes, some folks can't afford an electrician to find/fix, but still....
Click to expand...
You have to remember they don't always fully understand the potential danger. Yes most realize that when they receive a shock that something isn't right, but it doesn't always register as "I am lucky to still be alive".

Same thing happens in other settings.

People may continue to drive a vehicle they are aware has bad tires or brakes.

People will go out in a blizzard and risk being in an increased traffic accident hazard, or worse yet being stuck somewhere and suffering from cold even though they know better.

Some disregard advice concerning health matters that could end up to serious illness or death.
 
Jraef said:
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I'm not saying it was OK, I'm only explaining why nobody got killed. Yet.
Click to expand...



It really is scary that how close it was to someone getting hurt/killed.
 
When I worked as a city inspector a lady calls in to complain on her landlord. She has to shut off the water heater to take a shower or she'll get electrocuted in the shower. Went out to the apartment building and found fuse box in the shower.
 
mgookin said:
When I worked as a city inspector a lady calls in to complain on her landlord. She has to shut off the water heater to take a shower or she'll get electrocuted in the shower. Went out to the apartment building and found fuse box in the shower.
Click to expand...

And I suppose it wasn't in a NEMA 3R or NEMA 12 enclosure either :eek:hmy:
 
mgookin said:
When I worked as a city inspector a lady calls in to complain on her landlord. She has to shut off the water heater to take a shower or she'll get electrocuted in the shower. Went out to the apartment building and found fuse box in the shower.
Click to expand...

That's just nuts! I once saw a light switch in a shower because a small corner shower got expanded into the area where the switch was, so they put a WP cover on it. I thought that was crazy, but this tops that for sure.
 
Somewhere on one of the electrical forums is a photo of a large Zinsco panel in a shower. :happysad:
 
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