pool pump GFCI protection?

[malachi constant]

I have a new installation: permanent indoor pool with adjacent (~10' away) spa. There are a half dozen 208V/1P 20A pumps. The pumps are located in an adjacent below-grade parking garage (within same building/structure), maybe 25' from the pool. For what it is worth we have a certified and very respectable pool designer on board to whom I am also floating this question.

FIRST QUESTION:
'08 NEC, Article 680, Part II relates to Permanently Installed Pools. 680.22(B) states: ?Outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short circuit and ground fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.? (This paragraph was new to the 2008 edition.)

Does the inclusion of "'ground fault protection" indicate that if there is no EGFP device, then no GFCI is required? The service to the building is 208V/3P, I am pretty sure there is EGFP on the main or elsewhere, so no GFCI required? Right?

SECOND QUESTION:
Part IV relates to Spas and Hot Tubs. 680.44(C) states: "A combination pool/hot tub or spa assembly commonly bonded need not be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter."

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what constitutes a combination pool/spa? We have a pool. We have a spa. I don't believe the pumps are shared, but believe some other parts of the pool system (such as the chemical feeder controller) are shared. If the first question above negates the requirement for GFCI then this second question doesn't even matter, correct?

Thanks!

 

[billyzee]

Get out of the Pool

Get out of the Pool

I contend that all outlets supplied by single phase 15- and 20- amp branch circuits for swimming pool pump motors are required to have GFCI protection. 680.22(B) applies to these outlets regardless of their proximity to the swimming pool and that it applies to cord-and-plug-connected and direct-connected swimming pool pump motors.

So I think the intent is to ensure that you have GFCI protection FOR PERSONNEL on the branch circuit that feeds the motor and not just the GFCI protection for equipment. The milli-trip is higher for equipment type GFCI (30ma?)

That 680.44(C) is for self contained spas/hot tubs. That doesn?t sound like it applies to you.

 

[malachi constant]

...So I think the intent is to ensure that you have GFCI protection FOR PERSONNEL on the branch circuit that feeds the motor and not just the GFCI protection for equipment. The milli-trip is higher for equipment type GFCI (30ma?)

Thanks Billy. I guess my confusion is on the term "ground fault protection". I was initially thinking of this as a ground fault relay that gets installed in large services (480V, over 1000A). Thinking about it more Article 430 is pretty clear that "short-circuit and ground-fault protection" is required for every motor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't SC&GFP for a motor consist of a breaker or fuse? How does that protect from a ground fault? It obviously must, as it's considered "ground-fault protection" by the code. Man, I'm exposing my ignorance today.

Why is 680.22(B) written to include language regarding SC&GFP - wouldn't this apply to all branch circuits feeding a pump motor? Isn't that language superfluous?

That 680.44(C) is for self contained spas/hot tubs. That doesn?t sound like it applies to you.

Actually, it is for combination pool/spas. One could argue that is what we have installed - a pool and a spa, side by side, commonly bonded, with some shared components. Note that I'm not asserting that this is the intent of the code - I am trying to figure out what the intent of the code is!

 

[billyzee]

superluous

superluous

I think you must be careful not to mix up the terms ?ground fault protection? and ?ground fault circuit interrupter?. The ground fault protection of equipment as defined by NEC says it just protects equipment from damaging line-to-ground faults so fuses and circuit breakers work for this. The GFCI as defined by NEC clearly says it?s designed for protection of personnel (4-6ma).
And I think your right about the superfluous language.