pool water bonding

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sparky59

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I made a service call on an inground pool today. The homeowner was getting shocked when she was in the water and touched the metal handrail by the steps. The first thing i noticed was that the light was fiber optic so their was no metal in contact with the water. I put a 6' piece of 3/4" metal flex in the water and measured the voltage between the water and the rail which was only .977 on my fluke. I put my hand in the water and touched the rail with my other wet hand. Suprisingly i did feel a tingle. So i had my helper touch the flex that was in the water to the rail and when i touched it again...no more tingle. I think that new code for water bonding is a good thing. So my question is, do any of you know a product on the market to bond water on an existing pool? My helper already suggested duct taping the flex to the rail
 
the handrail is bonded back to the motor and it is mounted to the concrete deck and doesn't touch the water.
 
yes...i hadn't thought about that. i could put in a section of brass big enough for the required 9 sq. inches. thanks for the suggestion
 
If the filter system sits higher than the pool putting a brass fitting in won't work when the filter is off. Water drains back. There is a bonding plate for new pools that fits in the skimmer you might be able to retro fit it.
 
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Joe Mush said:
If the filter system sits higher than the pool putting a brass fitting in won't work when the filter is off. Water drains back.
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It will not 'drain back' unless there is a leak in the piping that allows air to get in.

If it did drain back you would have to prime the pump each time you wanted to restart it.
 
iwire said:
If it did drain back you would have to prime the pump each time you wanted to restart it.
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Not always. Enough water can remain in the pumps skimmer basket and impeller housing to prime the pump.

My pool is a prime example. The lid on my cartridge filter leaks and the plumbing drains on pump shut down.
 
chris kennedy said:
Not always. Enough water can remain in the pumps skimmer basket and impeller housing to prime the pump.

My pool is a prime example. The lid on my cartridge filter leaks and the plumbing drains on pump shut down.
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Your killing me .... :grin:

Would it drain back with out the leak?

That aside Joe does bring up an interesting point that may need to be addressed in the 2011 NEC.
 
Joe Mush said:
Thats not true. In ground pools have self priming pumps.Air can leak in to the system creating air gaps.
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Well if there are leaks it can drain back and I agree self priming pumps are capable of dealing with some air in the system but I have never found a 'self priming' pump that was really a no help needed pump.

But as I said to Chris you do bring up an interesting point that I had never considered or seen discussed before. There are times that a fitting used for bonding located above the water level could be dry at times.

This is really not addressed in the current wording, perhaps the wording needs to be changed requiring the bonding metal to be lower then the normal operating water level of the pool.
 
Joe Mush said:
In most cases water does drain back creating air gap. On all the pools we build I use Bond Safe 680 in the skimmers.
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Sounds like a lot of leaks in the pools you build. No reason the water should normally drain back other then someone opening the strainer basket.


It also starting to sound like you sell the bond safe device.
 
Bob,
I see no need for a code rule change...if the water drains back leaving the pool water unbonded, it is already a code violation. The code does not specify the method that is to be used for the pool water bonding other than it have 9 square inches in contact with the pool water.
I guess the rule could specify that where a metallic fitting on the circulation system is used for the water bonding, that the fitting is be on the suction side of the pump below the normal pool water level, maybe as a FPN.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Bob,
I see no need for a code rule change...if the water drains back leaving the pool water unbonded, it is already a code violation.
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I agree that is true and I did not say otherwise.

I just don't see it as an obvious thing for people to think of.


I guess the rule could specify that where a metallic fitting on the circulation system is used for the water bonding, that the fitting is be on the suction side of the pump below the normal pool water level,
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Might even have to say on the pool side of any valves.

The more I think on this I think the rule should be reworked to require this 9" to be located within perimeter of the pool close to the bottom.

Here in the Northeast an in ground pool gets only partially drained in the winter, the skimmer goes dry so even the 'bond safe 680' would not maintain the water bonding and I have never seen anything in 680 that says the bonding can be removed during the off season.
 
I don't think it is a good idea to re lie on the plumbing to make a safe bond
 
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In agreement with Don, it wouldn't hurt to add it as a FPN but if an inspector told the electrician to shut down the pump and waited a few min and it drained I would have to agree with the violation. What happens if you go on vacation and your level drops :( I think auto fill should be mandatory too, with some sort of monitoring device hat requires an electrician to install it.
 
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Skimmers that have equalizers maintain water or skimmers that plumb the main drain line in to the bottom of skimmer have water in when winterized.
 
Joe Mush said:
I don't think it is a good idea to re lie on the plumbing to make a safe bond .
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Well thanks for coming clean. :cool:

I had not bothered to think that much on this code section until you brought up the problem with the fitting at the filter. I think the section may need more work. Which is not to surprising for a brand new code section.

Do you see the issue I have with using something as high up as the skimmer for the bonding?

Here in MA when we had in ground pools the standard winter close out would have us drain it down about 18" to 24", well under the skimmer, and returns.
 
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