Pool with Bonding with Concrete Bottom

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kray1300

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I'm having a little trouble lining-up the 2008 NEC, 680.26, with a pool I saw today. The bottom will be poured concrete, but the sides are made of a fiberglass composite. The wet niche light housing is also non-metallic. I'm looking at the alternate means of running a # 8 in the perimeter, 18" to 24" from the edge, but it seems they have to put a grid in the bottom of the pool and bond this to the perimeter as well ( 4 spots) . What do you guys think?

Also, since the sides have no metal at all in contact with the water, we have to find a way to bond the water. Suggestions? Does the concrete count, since 680.26.B.1 says it is considered conductive?
 
You are combining two separate requirements. The conductive elements of the pool shell itself requires bonding. The perimeter surfaces require a bonding method. These two things, plus the other items and equipment identified in the section all need to be bonded togther.

The water needs to be in direct contact with something metal. Since you appear to not have metal handrails, ladder, or pool light trim, you will likely need to add a section of metallic pipe to the system to comply with the water bonding requirement. This is the most practical method.
 
bphgravity said:
The water needs to be in direct contact with something metal.
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I disagree. IMO the concrete shell is enough.

680.26(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5806 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).

680.26(B)(1) Conductive Pool Shells. Bonding to conductive pool shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or (B)(1)(b). Poured concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials.
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Also, a little commentary.

Conductive pool shells include those constructed of poured concrete, pneumatically applied concrete, concrete block, and, of course, metal.
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Bump for further discussion. Is my post above correct? I'm doing my first pool in about 5 years. I'm still under the 05 for a couple more months, but have been back into 680 a bit lately.

Also looking for a long running thread by a banned member. Something like "Bond O Matic". Should have been paying attention, but wasn't doing any pools so...
 
I was just thinking,.. lets say the steel in the concrete was encapsulated in a non conductive compound,.. This pool would now require a grid conforming to the contour of the pool and pool deck ,...correct??

what exactly is a pool deck and how does it differ from a perimeter surface,... if the pool deck extends beyond 3' does the grid also have to extend with it,. regardless the distance??
 
Although this pool has a concrete bottom, it must be a vinyl-liner type pool. Therefore, the concrete in the bottom of the pool is not in contact with the pool water. In accordance with 680.26(B)(1), vinyl-liner type pools are considered nonconductive. Therefore, 680.26(B)(1) does not apply and no bonding of the shell (in this case, the concrete bottom) is required.

Bryan is correct, (B)(1) Conductive Pool Shells and (B)(2) Perimeter Surfaces are two different requirements. Requirements for conductive pool shells do not apply to pools with vinyl liners or to fiberglass pools Requirements for perimeter surfaces apply to all permanently installed pools. Since this pool does not have reinforcing steel extending into the pool deck, bonding in accordance with the alternate means [680.26(B)(2)(b)] is required.
 
The last pool I did had metal walls and what appeared to be some sort of stone dust bottom no steel in the bottom,. lined with vinyl

I bonded the walls ,.. are you saying the walls do not require bonding at all??

or would (B)(3) come into the picture??
 
Yes M. D., you are correct with your last question. Metal walls of a vinyl-liner pool are not required to be bonded in accordance with (B)(1), but they are required to be bonded in accordance with (B)(3) because they are metallic parts of the pool structure not addressed 680.26(B)(1)(a)..

Now, here is another question . . . how many times should the metal walls be bonded?
 
that depends ,..on this particular pool there were three sets of plastic steps to bon around ,.. had they been continuous ,once
 
M. D. said:
I was just thinking,.. lets say the steel in the concrete was encapsulated in a non conductive compound,.. This pool would now require a grid conforming to the contour of the pool and pool deck ,...correct??

what exactly is a pool deck and how does it differ from a perimeter surface,... if the pool deck extends beyond 3' does the grid also have to extend with it,. regardless the distance??
Click to expand...

In referance to a concrete pool the DECK is the horizonal concrete pad or pavers in sand, extending the waters edge. The perimiter is the waters edge. You don't need to worry about encapsulated steel. Way to expencive.
 
To all members. I think this is a great forum and provides a great service to all its members. I come here on a daily basis even though I don't post often. I also visit other electrical forums and follow discussions on those forums as well. I see that Charles Miller has replied to a discussion on pools. I'm not sure if any of you subscribe to Electrical Contractor Magazine where he writes a monthly article. He has also just recently started a code forum. If any one is interested in visiting his web site it is http://www.charlesmiller.com/forum/

I am not sure if this is against this web sites policy to post the web address. If it is I apologize. I am providing this for people that enjoy staying on the internet for hours "like myself" and reading peoples perspective on code requirements and electrical installations.

Thanks
 
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