Porcelain lamp holders -- all installs code violations?

[lakee911]

I see these things all over the place, closets, garages, basements, etc.

I saw one in its original packaging and read the box and I was surprised by a few things...

The lamp holder had a rating of 250V/660W. Isn't 150W the largest bulb that comes in this size lamp base?

It was also rated for 90degree wire only! Does this mean it can't be used with NM wire? I think that is the only type of wiring I've ever seen used with them.

Do you guys use them? If so, where and how?

Thx,
Jason

 

[zbang]

You can get at least 300w medium-base lamps (and used to get 660w heater cones).

 

[kbsparky]

Depending on the size and use of the closet, installing a keyless socket may be a violation.

As for connecting type NM wire, if you have type NM-B, which has conductors rated for 90C, no problem there.

We routinely install them in attics, garages, and unfinished basements.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

They were a cheap fix for many years before the code cracked down on closets. They are still legal for many uses

 

[wireguy8169]

I like those vinyl/plastic keyless and if you wack them with a board in the garage they do not crack in the winter...as easy anyhow

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Depending on the size and use of the closet, installing a keyless socket may be a violation.

As for connecting type NM wire, if you have type NM-B, which has conductors rated for 90C, no problem there.

We routinely install them in attics, garages, and unfinished basements.

What does the size of the closet have to do with it. Open bulb porcelain is legal in a closet as long as it is not a clothes closet.

 

[lakee911]

I didn't know tht NM-B is rated for 90 degrees. Learn something new everyday.

What does keyless refer to?

 

[480sparky]

I didn't know tht NM-B is rated for 90 degrees. Learn something new everyday.

334.112.

What does keyless refer to?

The 'key' is a switch, so 'keyless' means 'without a switch', or 'does not have a pullchain'.

 

[jetlag]

I know one use that is illegal for sure . I have seen them used for fuse holders and they will stand 30 amp . The 660 watts must be just for the heat because that is 5.5 amp at 120 v . People used to use them all the time as a fuse disconnect for well pumps out in the country. They would have 2 lamp holders for a 240 pump with 30 amp fuses. The pump was usually 4 amp @240 and the 30 amp fuse handled the start load fine . I even saw a whole garage apartment ran on 2 - 30 amp, that fed 6- 15 amp for the branch circuits. I also saw in an attic where someone tried to keep their #14 wire legal when they tied into a #12 20 a . They installed a lampholder with 15 amp fuse on the #12 line and came out with the #14 . Back in those days the out side shell was brass not aluminum :roll::grin:

 

[kwired]

if this were installed with 60 watt lamps you would still be less than 660 watts:grin:

 

[al hildenbrand]

I saw one in its original packaging and read the box and I was surprised by a few things...

It was also rated for 90degree wire only!

Thanks for posting this. That's a new detail I had not yet noticed. This type of lampholder is so old it has its very own classification in the UL White Book.

The 90 degree C rating posses an interesting problem for all those replacements of existing worn out keyless and pull chain lampholders on old 60 degree wire.

 

[al hildenbrand]

if this were installed with 60 watt lamps you would still be less than 660 watts:grin:

Absolutely inspired hack.

 

[lakee911]

Thanks for posting this. That's a new detail I had not yet noticed. This type of lampholder is so old it has its very own classification in the UL White Book.

The 90 degree C rating posses an interesting problem for all those replacements of existing worn out keyless and pull chain lampholders on old 60 degree wire.

For sure. I did stop at Lowes the other day and looked at them. Cooper Crouse Hinds, I think, made the porcelain one I had seen. I did notice a plastic one, but it didn't have any instructions and didn't list a specific temperature. Maybe its different?

334.112.
The 'key' is a switch, so 'keyless' means 'without a switch', or 'does not have a pullchain'.

Ok--must be old terminology. I always thought the switch was turn a quarter counter-clockwise for off and a quarter turn clockwise for on.

I know one use that is illegal for sure . I have seen them used for fuse holders and they will stand 30 amp.

Oh, that's certainly interesting. I've never seen heard of that before. I didn't realize that the fuses had the same base on them.

Jason

 

[Sierrasparky]

I didn't know tht NM-B is rated for 90 degrees. Learn something new everyday.

NM- b is is rated at 90deg however you must use max ampacity at the lower number.

 

[kbsparky]

...The 'key' is a switch, so 'keyless' means 'without a switch', or 'does not have a pullchain'.

A keyed type lamp holder actually had what appears to be a key switch on it:

In the olde days, it was common to see this type of lamp holder hanging from a pendant in the middle of a room. One had to turn the "key" to make the light come on. Pull-chain types were later used, so the light bulb could be mounted closer to the ceiling ....

 

[dmagyar]

That fixture is a thing of beauty

That fixture is a thing of beauty

I wonder if that fixture is in the museum of modern art somewhere?

 

[kbsparky]

What does the size of the closet have to do with it. Open bulb porcelain is legal in a closet as long as it is not a clothes closet.

I have always followed the notion that an open bulb keyless fixture in any closet should maintain sufficient clearances from shelves to minimize the hazards of starting a fire.

While the diagram in 410.8 is useful for any closet, some might say those provisions are not enforceable in areas where clothes are not stored. To those nay-sayers, I refer them to 410.5. Just good common sense here.

 

[kbsparky]

...The 90 degree C rating posses an interesting problem for all those replacements of existing worn out keyless and pull chain lampholders on old 60 degree wire.

Not really. Simply use some THHN wire as pigtails, or better yet -- buy a keyless with the pigtails already in place. :grin:

 

[kbsparky]

I wonder if that fixture is in the museum of modern art somewhere?

Nah ... you can buy one here.

 

[brother]

334.112.

But remember that the 90 degrees is only for 'derating purposes, in the end you still have to have the 60 degree ampacity, 334.80.