Possible grounding issue?

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gordonjs

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I'm an electrical engineer, but home electric certainly isn't my forte.

So for the next 12 months, I'll be living in an apartment while on some contract work. I moved in a few weeks ago and I noticed that the lights flicker.. QUITE a bit. We're not talking just when you turn on the AC, we're talking all the time, and certainly influenced by appliances, even small ones, etc. Also, when my neighbor upstairs runs anything, I get flicker as well. It's become a huge annoyance even in a few weeks.

The apartment has a main panel, but a seperate neutral and ground. (I assume the bond is done in the outside service disconnect) and the apartments are only 1 year old, so they are fairly new wiring.

I did something which I am SURE isn't code, just to test. I used a screwdriver to bond the neutral and ground at my panel in the apartment. I got a little spark, but ALL the flickering stopped. It was smooth as silk in the apartment (I was running the washing machine to maximize the flickering).

So, what could it be? From searching around, some people seem to say neutral/ground bond, but... Help me guys!
 
gordonjs said:
I'm an electrical engineer, but home electric certainly isn't my forte.
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That’s OK, because the forum rules wouldn’t allow us to help you with that anyway. But we can help with questions related to your engineering tasks. So welcome to the forum.
gordonjs said:
The apartment has a main panel, but a separate neutral and ground. (I assume the bond is done in the outside service disconnect). . . .
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It should be. But it might not be. If the wiring was not correctly installed, that might have something to do with the cause of your flickering.
gordonjs said:
I did something which I am SURE isn't code, just to test. I used a screwdriver to bond the neutral and ground at my panel in the apartment. I got a little spark, but ALL the flickering stopped. It was smooth as silk in the apartment (I was running the washing machine to maximize the flickering).
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That, I must say, was unwise. You may have created an unsafe configuration, by enabling all neutral current to flow in parallel along all the grounding paths within the building. I wouldn’t use this test as proof (i.e., to the management) that something is wrong with the system.
gordonjs said:
Help me guys!
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To what degree have you complained to the management, and what responses have they given you? I would be all over the management, to force them to bring in an electrician to troubleshoot and resolve the issue. Take a look at your rental contract, and see what it gives you by way of relief. If the apartment is not safe, and electrical problems can certainly render an apartment unsafe, then you should have the break the lease at no cost to yourself. Throw that at the management, and see if they start paying attention to the problem.

Oh, by the way, there are guys and gals participating in the forum.
 
Yea, I realize it was an unsafe scenario bonding the ground to neutral. It was a 3am 'why the hell not' dumb move I guess.

I've complained a few times to management, and they haven't done a damn thing. I figured that telling them it could be a serious concern didn't concern them. I'm going to bring it up again today and restate the seriousness of the situation including the very valid point you brought up concerning the unsafe atmosphere of the living conditions.

Thanks for the help, and I'm a southerner, so 'guys' usually means all involved, guys or girls! :)
 
Sounds like a bad (loose) neutral. Get the manager of the building to deal with it. If this is an individual home it may be out on the pole. I suspect all the 120 circuits may be doing it if this is the case. If it is just one circuit then there is a loose neutral on that circuit.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Sounds like a bad (loose) neutral. Get the manager of the building to deal with it. If this is an individual home it may be out on the pole. I suspect all the 120 circuits may be doing it if this is the case. If it is just one circuit then there is a loose neutral on that circuit.
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Thats kinda what I thought, hence why I put it in this section. And yes, it's both hot legs that have the issue. I notice flickering from breakers on both.
 
Do you know if it is something that is not isolated to your apartment? Does it happen in the halls as well? That could help narrow down the potential locations of the (I agree with Dennis) bad connection point(s).
 
Has your complaint been sent to building management in writing?
Start the paper trail....
 
gordonjs said:
So, what could it be? From searching around, some people seem to say neutral/ground bond...
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Definitely not. The equipment grounding conductor is securely connected to the utility neutral, which is why the bad idea worked. The neutral is bad, somewhere. Tell them that failure to fix it will result in an open neutral, and let them know about the thousands of dollars of damaged equipment they'll be responsible for, and maybe they'll pay attention and fix it.
 
George Stolz said:
Definitely not. The equipment grounding conductor is securely connected to the utility neutral, which is why the bad idea worked. The neutral is bad, somewhere. Tell them that failure to fix it will result in an open neutral, and let them know about the thousands of dollars of damaged equipment they'll be responsible for, and maybe they'll pay attention and fix it.
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The electric company came out and used a load sim at the meter. They said the neutral was ok.

There are 6 meters due to the 6 apartments, but there is only one giant service disconnect. I haven't even looked, but is the service disconnect after or before the meters? In other words, are there 6 disconnects in the service disconnect after the meters in that big disconnect or is there one before? Or could it be either?
 
It is probably somewhere between wherever the power company placed their test instrument and the receptacle in your apartment, which doesn't narrow it down much. It doesn't really matter if the meters are hot or cold sequence.

It could be anywhere, an electrician is needed to find the problem, and I would try to have the landlord absorb that cost if I were you.
 
but couldnt the dimming of the lights also be that the panel load is unbalanced? Isnt that why lights dim when an large appliance comes on or when you plug the table saw into a regular outlet causing such a load surge
 
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