Power and HDMI To Wall Mounted TV's

[Johnny Joule]

My residential TV installers/hangers are always coming up against issues regarding wall mounted TV's, power and low voltage.
I've been out of the NEC loop a bit, and we are trying to create company policy to always adhere to code regarding the above (no extension cords in walls, etc.).
For example, a TV location above a stone fireplace has a single 2" PVC running from basement to behind TV location, by electricians.
Can they run romex and required HDMI, CAT6, Optical cables in this single 2" PVC?
How about SJ cord with same low voltage cables in the 2" PVC?
How about just an Optical (TOSLINK) cable with the romex in the 2" PVC?

Any clarity/insight to what the NEC states on these types of situations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mtnelect]

My residential TV installers/hangers are always coming up against issues regarding wall mounted TV's, power and low voltage.
I've been out of the NEC loop a bit, and we are trying to create company policy to always adhere to code regarding the above (no extension cords in walls, etc.).
For example, a TV location above a stone fireplace has a single 2" PVC running from basement to behind TV location, by electricians.
Can they run romex and required HDMI, CAT6, Optical cables in this single 2" PVC?
How about SJ cord with same low voltage cables in the 2" PVC?
How about just an Optical (TOSLINK) cable with the romex in the 2" PVC?

Any clarity/insight to what the NEC states on these types of situations would be greatly appreciated.

The power and the HDMI should be separate. I usually install a "Tiger Grip" for the power and another "Tiger Grip" for the HDMI.

 

[infinity]

NM cable can be run in a sleeve with other cables.

 

[Johnny Joule]

The power and the HDMI should be separate. I usually install a "Tiger Grip" for the power and another "Tiger Grip" for the HDMI.

Right, but is there specific wording in the NEC that prohibits a non-metallic sheathed cable (Romex) and a cable such as an CL2 HDMI to be run in same conduit?
And, again, in this case, there is ONLY a single 2" PVC, in the fireplace stone, that is intended for TV power and signal.
Just want to have evidence if I need to tell builder that we can't run everything in that single 2" PVC.

 

[mtnelect]

NM cable can be run in a sleeve with other cables.

I have never felt comfortable mixing the two. Line voltage and low voltage in my opinion should never be mixed. I guess you can do it, but I feel it's like taking a chance on interference down the road.

 

[LarryFine]

The only A/V cabling that is really subject to 60Hz interference these days is line-level analog audio.

 

[infinity]

If everything is digital (HDMI, Toslink, etc) there should be no interference. Power and signal cables can be in the same sleeve.

 

[Johnny Joule]

Not so much worried about interference...I've seen CAT cable wrapped around SCR, and on and on.
More interested in NEC, in regard to liability, inspectors, insurance (if there was ever a fire or injury that could be traced back, etc.)

Again, trying to get company practice specified: for example, NOT PERMISSIBLE to run extension cords in walls, NOT PERMISSIBLE to run a piece of 14/2 from a 12/2 circuit to install an outlet for a TV, NOT PERMISSIBLE to staple the Romex exposed along living room baseboard, NOT PERMISSIBLE to run RG6 COAX in to the same box as power receptacle, etc.
These are all clear cut violations of NEC, and can be looked up in the book. Just not sure on the 2" PVC situation above. And we get a lot of this type of stuff from builders (for example, they'll provide a single 2" PVC from basement to attic, expecting all trades can use that for future wiring (low voltage and 120v), or same deal out to gate, etc.

 

[infinity]

Just not sure on the 2" PVC situation above. And we get a lot of this type of stuff from builders (for example, they'll provide a single 2" PVC from basement to attic, expecting all trades can use that for future wiring (low voltage and 120v), or same deal out to gate, etc.

Again it depends on what you're installing in that sleeve. Cables are permitted to be together, no different than running together through a hole in a stud or in a chase. Is it the best design maybe or maybe not but that's not the question. Will some inspector not very well versed in the code have a problem with it, maybe they will. Obviously running two separate runs of raceway eliminates any future questions.

 

[hbiss]

Romex and low voltage run together through a conduit is no different than them running next to each other in a wall.

-Hal

 

[retirede]

I have never felt comfortable mixing the two. Line voltage and low voltage in my opinion should never be mixed.

Why? Just curious as to your reasoning.

 

[qcroanoke]

As long as they are "cables" and not single conductors and the PVC is a "sleeve" and not a complete raceway IMO it should be permissible for both types to be in there.
But being able to point at a code section that allows or disallows it may be hard.

 

[tom baker]

NM cable is a chapter 3 wiring method, no separation required for LV in a bored hole as pointed out, no different than RMC and LV. The PVC raceway article will identify if cables are allied in the raceway (most do but this wasn’t clear until some code cycles ago)
I am looking at who responded and some knowledgeable mods responded.

 

[petersonra]

https://www.homecontrols.com/homecontrols/products/pdfs/OQ-OnQLegrand/OQCPT306WV1-Specifications.pdf

 

[NTesla76]

Just off the top of my head, I thought Article 725 mentions this.

 

[NTesla76]

On second though....Chapter 8

 

[hbiss]

Just off the top of my head, I thought Article 725 mentions this. On second though....Chapter 8

I believe both do, under separation from CONDUCTORS carrying Class 1 or line voltage. We are talking about a cable here (Romex). No separation is required.

-Hal

 

[mtnelect]

Why? Just curious as to your reasoning.

The video cables can get pretty large and tuff to handle, without throwing in power at the same time.

 

[suemarkp]

My residential TV installers/hangers are always coming up against issues regarding wall mounted TV's, power and low voltage.
I've been out of the NEC loop a bit, and we are trying to create company policy to always adhere to code regarding the above (no extension cords in walls, etc.).
For example, a TV location above a stone fireplace has a single 2" PVC running from basement to behind TV location, by electricians.
Can they run romex and required HDMI, CAT6, Optical cables in this single 2" PVC?
How about SJ cord with same low voltage cables in the 2" PVC?
How about just an Optical (TOSLINK) cable with the romex in the 2" PVC?

Any clarity/insight to what the NEC states on these types of situations would be greatly appreciated.

Look at NEC 725.136(A) and (I). A says you can't run these together unless you can find an exception in B-I. (I) is your big loophole. (I) requires 2" of separation between the cables in a raceway, compartment, tray, etc unless:

(1) Either all of the electric light, power, Class2, non-powerlimited fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuit conductors or all of the Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors are in a raceway or in metal-sheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type TC, or Type UF cables.
-or-
(2) All of the electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuit conductors are permanently separated from all of the Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors by a continuous and firmly fixed nonconductor, such as porcelain tubes or flexible tubing, in addition to the insulation on the conductors.

So as long as all the power cables are NM, UF, MC or TC type cables, you can mix them in a pipe with class 2 and 3 low voltage cabling. Subpart (2) of this would also allow you to sleeve either the power conductors or the low voltage conductors with flex tubing to create a "firmly fixed non conductor".

A big wording difference to pay attention to in the NEC is CABLE versus CONDUCTOR. Low voltage cabling is frequently in a non-metallic sheath. It isn't called type NM low voltage cable, but most do have a sheath and not individual just insulated conductors.

There is similar language in 800.133(A)(3).

 

[hbiss]

The video cables can get pretty large and tuff to handle, without throwing in power at the same time.

True. All other arguments for a single conduit aside, keep in mind that video and audio cables are often connectorized and that could require a separate conduit to get them through.

-Hal