Power company V NEC

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dbehounek

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Denver, CO
I'm stuck between the power company(Xcel) and the NEC. Xcel says the service mast through the roof cannot be higher than 4' above the roofline where the NEC says that, since the pitch of the roof is less than a 4" in 12", I have to clear it by 8'....can anyone tell me how to beat one or the other into submission here?
 
Roof clearance as per NEC

Roof clearance as per NEC

I was told that by a Denver inspector that those roof clearances are overlooked because the power co. doesn't want to have to use a ladder up on the roof to do the permanent connections on the service drop.

Got one signed off last summer that went over a covered patio. I was trying to decide if I needed to make that weatherhead really high or not. I was told to do it just as if it was right next to the eave.

Please check for yourself with AHJ though.
 
weressl said:
The Utility rules up to the meter, NEC after it.
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That may be true in some areas but in my area of Ohio the Utility defines the service point at the splice from the service drop to the service entrance conductors for an overhead service. We inspect to the NEC from that point forward.

Underground is a little different. For a residential application the service point is at the line side of the meter. For non-residential the service point is typically at the secondary bushings of the utility's transformer.

Pete
 
This is in Lakewood, CO and the AHJ says it HAS to be 8' and the Power company says nope they won't put a ladder on the roof...Someone has to give on this, Putting the service underground is likely to be very cost prohibitive sine the service is complete up to NEC. I REALLY want to make Xcel eat it. I think it is rediculous that they can deny a service install that meets all of the NEC. The stupid 3" in 12" roof pitch has me hosed here. Does anybody have a way to convince either entity to give up their position?
 
Also, the Excel Energy Standard for Electric Installation and Use, Sec. 4, Overhead Service, 3a States that the service attachment point is not to exceed 48" above the roofline. There is NO exceptions and I have no idea how to work this out.
 
The next thing that will happen will be that you put the mast up with the 8' of clearance and Xcel will refuse to set a meter.

Maybe you could get somebody at Southwest Meter Dept on your side. They have always been pretty good to work with.

Don't really see Lakewood's point of view on this myself.
 
You will have to install a new mask ( service) on a wall where the cable does not go over the roof. Then set a meter, disco, etc...

It wouldn't hurt to ask how much they would charge to install it under ground. Tell the HO's that it's extra if they would want that.
Or perhaps spit the cost.
In one of our local jurisdictions the HO is required to go back under ground any time they upgrade the service.(city ordinance)

They had a roofer get killed in Durham about 10 years ago, He was touching a low poco cable .
 
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dbehounek said:
This is in Lakewood, CO and the AHJ says it HAS to be 8' and the Power company says nope they won't put a ladder on the roof...Someone has to give on this, Putting the service underground is likely to be very cost prohibitive sine the service is complete up to NEC. I REALLY want to make Xcel eat it. I think it is rediculous that they can deny a service install that meets all of the NEC. The stupid 3" in 12" roof pitch has me hosed here. Does anybody have a way to convince either entity to give up their position?
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As the others have said you need to know where the legal 'Service Point' is. For overheads that is often at the splice at the weatherhead ..... the same place the wire sizing goes from NEC based to power company based.

From Article 100
Service Point. The point of connection between the facilities
of the serving utility and the premises wiring.
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If the service point is at the weatherhead the NEC does not apply to the overhead conductors.

90.2 Scope.

(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:

(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric
utility where such installations
a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated
metering,
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The only way the NEC would apply to these conductress would be if the service point was out at the pole and I highly doubt that is the case.
 
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I've called the meter department but got no answer. I hope to hear something soon. I actually made the call to the city prior to completing the service change once I found out the roof pitch was under the 4" in 12". The inspector told me he didn't care what Xcel wanted, NEC is the authority governing the installation.
I agree with the inspector. Xcel shouldn't be able to require anything that violates the NEC minimums, but could require things that exceed the code such as the locking lever bypass on residential services, which started last June.
 
Xcel has a book of standards for the different types of installations. If the overhead is above 48" then it must be guyed, although I don't have it (the spec book) here w/ me and so don't have the max height they will accept even with a guy/support(s). They send out this "blue book" free to contractors, and it is also available as a pdf download, although I had trouble downloading it every time and so have the book. There are some stipulations: if they cannot freely get to it with a bucket truck they may have you change it. They don't get out a ladder.
 
gaelectric said:
I was told that by a Denver inspector that those roof clearances are overlooked because the power co. doesn't want to have to use a ladder up on the roof to do the permanent connections on the service drop.
Click to expand...

that's exactly the reason; the poco also doesn't want to do it here because for some reason they don't like guyed masts.
 
dbehounek said:
This is in Lakewood, CO and the AHJ says it HAS to be 8' and the Power company says nope they won't put a ladder on the roof...Someone has to give on this, Putting the service underground is likely to be very cost prohibitive sine the service is complete up to NEC. I REALLY want to make Xcel eat it. I think it is rediculous that they can deny a service install that meets all of the NEC. The stupid 3" in 12" roof pitch has me hosed here. Does anybody have a way to convince either entity to give up their position?
Click to expand...

They don't own a bucket truck?
 
Will the drop cable be running over the roof above the structure or just over the overhang portion? If its just the overhang you are only required to have 18" clearance if the distance is less than 4'.
 
iwire said:
No reason to do so.

If we say the NEC applies to those overhead conductors then they are too small and will need to be replaced with larger conductors.
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I agree BUT the NEC does have the requirements about roof lines. So one of us either the Power Co or the electrician has to design the mast so it will be code compliant.

That's just like you can't have power co cables to close to an upstairs bedroom window. This is well past the "point of attachment" but inspectors will red flag it. In that case you can either move the mast.
Or tell this multimillion dollar Power Co to move thier pole.:)
Or my favorite , go underground.
 
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The Outcome

The Outcome

So, I hope Xcel doesn't monitor this forum.....In the end, both entities are absolutely correct in their points of view. Xcel is governed by this terrible body of rules called OSHA. OSHA says that a ladder cannot be put on a roof with a pitch. This goes for us electricians as well, by the way. Due to that restraint, Xcel cannot give on this issue. NEC requires an 8' mast in this instance using all the available rules and none of the exceptions apply. There is no access for a bucket truck to get into position at this point. I am at fault here for NOT getting an accurate measurement when I bid the job. I found my error only after the fact. To get past this one, I had to lower the POA for Xcel and once the meter is in, I will move it back up for code. Next time, I will get good measurements on everything and NOT make ASSumptions. Thanks all.
 
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