power conditioners/ capacitor systems

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Excactly how is a power factor of .05 increased to .95 through power conditioners/ capacitors?? Or is this even possible?? There are products claiming to do excalty this. Has anyone had personal experiance with such products?? If so, any amount of feed back back would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
 

charlie b

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I don't know about products. But it is absolutely possible to increase the power factor of a system from .05 to .95 through the use of capacitors. If you start with a .05, it means that the circuit is almost entirely inductive (i.e., almost no resistors, almost all coils of wire). All that is needed is to add the right amount of capacitors, to match the amount of inductive reactance. Is this practical? I can?t say. Are there real systems that actually have a .05 power factor? I don?t know.

Welcome to the forum.
 
could a product like this be used to reduce the amount of electricity consumed as well?? Does increased power factor mean lower light bills?? thanks for the reply
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
_hot__wire_ said:
could a product like this be used to reduce the amount of electricity consumed as well?? Does increased power factor mean lower light bills?? thanks for the reply
Ahhhh. You have been reading the latest rip off ads. This is all bunk. This device can not lower your residential bills because you are not penalized for a bad PF.
 

ulanini

New member
_hot__wire_ said:
could a product like this be used to reduce the amount of electricity consumed as well?? Does increased power factor mean lower light bills?? thanks for the reply

You only need capacitors if the PF correction is all you want.

Reduced line/feeder losses due to the corresponding lower current depends on how large the load is. This is the only reduction you can get in your energy consumption.
 

mivey

Senior Member
As ulanini posted, you save by reducing line loss. If you put the capacitor right next to your meter, you really save nothing (the power company will see the savings, but don't expect a thank-you note). You want the capacitor close to the inductor.

Think about a simplified view of resistor, inductor (coils or motors) and capacitor loads. Resistive loads use extra energy because they pull current down a wire. When current goes through the wire, you must overcome the wire resistance, and that extra effort causes heat loss. Heat loss is real energy that you pay for at the meter.

In the same manner, inductors and capacitors also pull (actually "push" and "pull") current down the wire. Inductors and capacitors are stored energy systems.

A motor pulls some current down a wire for productive output. It also has to have some extra power to create magnetic fields so it can function. This extra power produces no real work but is necessary. The extra current needed to feed this stored energy system is pushed up and down the wire because the AC wave cycles from positive to negative. This causes heat loss that you pay for at the meter.

If we could figure out a way to keep this energy stored locally without having to move it up and down the line, we could stop pushing this extra current around and save heat losses.

The capacitor is a stored energy system that is the opposite of the inductor system. When the AC wave cycles from positive to negative, these two systems can swap the stored energy back and forth.

The solution is to put a capacitor close to the inductor so the stored energy current will only flow between the capacitor and inductor. This way, you will not have the extra heat loss from the meter to the motor, but only from the capacitor to the motor.

At start-up, the power needed to charge the stored energy system still has to travel from the meter down the wire to the capacitor/inductor pair but that is a small amount of time compared to how long the motor will be running.

[edit: If you do not have a concentrated inductor load, you must make a compromise and figure out where to put a capacitor to optimize savings. A capacitor by itsself is just as bad as a motor by itsself. FWIW, pf correction is usually only worried about in commercial and industrial settings. If I had a big motor in my house, I might consider putting in a capacitor but it would have to be a really big motor with a really long feed. Right now, I can't think of a residential application that would make it worth it].

[one more edit: In an industrial setting, I would think several hundred horsepower, located several hundred feet from the meter, that had a significant amount of run time, would be worth investigating].
 
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Faulting

Member
I looked at one of these units today`on the web. I have a customer with four condensing units in his home and wanted to save on his electric bill and thought this would help. I called the manufacturer and couldn't get a reply.
The video shows the device doing a power factor correction on a single family dwelling from .059 to 0.98.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080607-1438 EST

Brian:

Assuming a current transformer is properly loaded with a low resistance how does it produce an approximately 90 deg phase shift?

If I want a phase shift of about 90 degree I need a near perfect capacitor or inductor.

.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Faulting said:
I looked at one of these units today`on the web. I have a customer with four condensing units in his home and wanted to save on his electric bill and thought this would help.
Don't waste your time with this snake oil stuff and don't believe the garbage spewed by the manufacturer. This stuff is a big con game.

To save electricity, put your efforts towards things that will produce real results: Adjust your thermostats, add insulation, install better windows, replace older A/C units with more efficient ones and/or a heat pump, put in a more efficient water heater, use more efficient lighting, etc. Visit this site for a start: http://southface.org/

Faulting said:
The video shows the device doing a power factor correction on a single family dwelling from .059 to 0.98.
Utter nonsense. They have no shame in rigging a video to sell you their snake oil, only it has been upgraded to prey on modern society.

see this: http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4941&p_created=1204908170&p_topview=1
 
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