Power line under building

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bradfordservicesinc

Member
I have a installation where the power comes from a 200 amp pedestal run underground through conduct into a crawl space and then goes up to the panel in the building about 56.0 feet from the entrance into the crawl. I am being told the conduct in the crawl space must be buried 18" or covered with a min. of 2" of concrete.All other installation we have done we could attach the power cable to the floor joist in the crawl or the conduct could be attached to the foundation wall close to the top. Was told this has been in the code from about 10 plus years. Can someone tell where this is in the code?
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Power line under building

I don't have a copy of the 1999 Code to verify but I think the 18" requirement in the crawl went into effect in the 2002 Code. The 2" of concrete or brick has been there for years. :D
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Power line under building

Not in the "99":

230-6. Conductors Considered Outside the Building
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:
1. Where installed under not less than 2 in. (50.8 mm) of concrete beneath a building or other structure
2. Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 2 in. (50.8 mm) thick
3. Where installed in a transformer vault conforming to the requirements of Article 450, Part C
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Nothing about a crawl space in "2002" but the 18" requirment is there:
230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:
(1) Where installed under not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete beneath a building or other structure
(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 50 mm (2 in.) thick
(3) Where installed in any vault that meets the construction requirements of Article 450, Part III
(4) Where installed in conduit and under not less than 450 mm (18 in.) of earth beneath a building or other structure
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[ May 08, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
paul

paul

Senior Member
Location
Snohomish, WA
Re: Power line under building

My thoughts are in line with stamcon's. Are these conductors protected by an O.C. device at the pedestal?
 
paul

paul

Senior Member
Location
Snohomish, WA
Re: Power line under building

So you are under a building with protected conductors, which are in conduit. As long as your depth requirements are met before you get underneath the structure, I fail to see where this is a code violation if your conduit is securely fastened as per the code. It no longer falls under article 230 after the main OCP.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Power line under building

Well in lite of this, article 230 is only for service's 230.1 clearly show that service conductors stop at point of main service disconnect/OCPD. This point would be at the pedestal. The conductors are now feeders that fall under article 225 which in this instlation would only have two requirment's that would pertain to your installation:

Which the last one would send you right back to 230.6 unless you installed a disconnect before you entered the crawl space. Then it would be up to your descresion, as the referance to 230.6 is a Permissive Rule (90.5)

225.31 Disconnecting Means.
Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
225.32 Location.
The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be permitted to be utilized.
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[ May 09, 2005, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
A

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Power line under building

Originally posted by bradfordservicesinc:
I have a installation where the power comes from a 200 amp pedestal run underground through conduct into a crawl space and then goes up to the panel in the building about 56.0 feet from the entrance into the crawl. I am being told the conduct in the crawl space must be buried 18" or covered with a min. of 2" of concrete.All other installation we have done we could attach the power cable to the floor joist in the crawl or the conduct could be attached to the foundation wall close to the top. Was told this has been in the code from about 10 plus years. Can someone tell where this is in the code?
Click to expand...
As long as there is a main at the pedistal then IMO it is fine to run in the crawl space not under 18 in of earth or 2 in of concrete.
This is when there is a main OCPD.Now if there was a meter no disc. then yes it would have to be underground till the first point of entry.Simply an extended back to back.
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Power line under building

Now you are forgetting, "225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure."

The disconnecting means must be provided in accordance with 225.32. In order to be fastened under the floor joists, you have to have a disconnecting means with OC protection. If you don't, then the requirements of 230.6 must be followed. :D
 
J

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Power line under building

The trick here is don't bury it at all.If you cover it with even a few inches then it must be buried to 18.It can be run exsposed.
 
S

stamcon

Senior Member
Location
South San Francisco CA
Re: Power line under building

"225.32 Location.
The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be permitted to be utilized."

225.32 doesn't state the main disconnect needs to be mounted to the exterior of the building, just readily accessible and nearest the point of entry.

How far away is the pedestal from the building in this situation and is it readily accessible?

If the pedestals in this photo are not attached to the structure and they contain disconnects, can they be considered the service disconnects?
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Images/DrivewayService.jpg
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Power line under building

Steve, you are getting into semantics and the call belongs to the AHJ. For what it is worth, I agree with you. What matters is whether or not the pedestal is a separate structure. If it is not really close to the building, in my opinion it is a separate structure. :D
 
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