Power out

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gar

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Ann Arbor, Michigan
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EE
210812-1515 EST

I am in Ann Arbor, Michigan. We are served by Detroit Edison. The latest news report is that 591,000 DTE customers are without power. This is probably about 1,800,000 people without DTE power. My power went out about 7 AM today. However I think the worst part of the storm was earlier in the night. My daughter has power. My son has power both at his shop in Ann Arbor, and his home just outside Ann Arbor on the west side. The University of Michigan has power on the main campus because they have their own power plant. This probably means the main hospital has power. The North Campus area has multiple emergency generators, and a small power plant. It is also feed from two separate substations.

At my main panel I read at most 0.001 V from DTE. However, I am running on a generator, 5 kVA Honda. A few people in my neighborhood have generators, but the vast majority don't. Yet any of these people could afford a generator. I do not understand why most people do not have backup capability. In our area there is no shortage of natural gas, and thus a 5 kW unit can probably handle emergency needs. You basically only need refrigeration, and a few lights.

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Adrian Michigan - Power out in the city was spotty. Couldn't figure it out, about every third building was out and business were closed for the day. Lots of traffic lights out which made for some touchy driving. Most of the people knew to consider them a four-way stops when they don't work. Our power stayed on, so my generator did it's test run yesterday afternoon, but never had to run today.
 
gar said:
210812-1515 EST

I am in Ann Arbor, Michigan. We are served by Detroit Edison. The latest news report is that 591,000 DTE customers are without power. This is probably about 1,800,000 people without DTE power. My power went out about 7 AM today. However I think the worst part of the storm was earlier in the night. My daughter has power. My son has power both at his shop in Ann Arbor, and his home just outside Ann Arbor on the west side. The University of Michigan has power on the main campus because they have their own power plant. This probably means the main hospital has power. The North Campus area has multiple emergency generators, and a small power plant. It is also feed from two separate substations.

At my main panel I read at most 0.001 V from DTE. However, I am running on a generator, 5 kVA Honda. A few people in my neighborhood have generators, but the vast majority don't. Yet any of these people could afford a generator. I do not understand why most people do not have backup capability. In our area there is no shortage of natural gas, and thus a 5 kW unit can probably handle emergency needs. You basically only need refrigeration, and a few lights.

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For those of us who shouldn't, and therefore in my case, won't, do our own install, the cost is non-trivial. I would guesstimate a 5-7kW unit, which could probably run the whole house less AC, would run me a bit on the far side of $5,000 with the unit, plumber to do the gas hookup, ATS, etc. Maybe even more, since the panel is in a finished space.
 
210812-2022 EDT

Our power came back on about 5 PM. But the outage map still shows us without power.

The amount of outage in the south east Michigan area is hugh. About 600,000 customers were knocked out. This is probably close to 2,000,000 people without power. Usually our outages are not this large.

Restoration in my area this quickly probably means some sort of medium voltage line problems, breakers, or fuses.

I saw no downed wires in my area, some branches were down, and no major trees were down.

But I am amazed that so few of my neighbors have backup generators. Among about 30 homes close to me I estimate there are only about 5 generators.

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This is why I think its time to bury power lines, outages are becoming more common.

With that said I'm sorry for this happened to you, I think you didn't deserve that.

Rapid restoration could mean a recloser loop scheme or DNA.
 
210813-0737 EDT

mbrooke:

If you bring up https://outage.dteenergy.com/map and expand the view so you see much of the DTE area you will see hugh areas north and south of Ann Arbor that are without power. This implies problems feeding substations.

The outage map still shows us out of power, but we have had power back since around 5 PM yesterday.

I don't loose power very often, and for 20 years I have had a generator so it is not a big problem for me. Different for my neighbors. What I don't understand is why so many neighbors don't have backup generators. Home prices have gone sky high, and if they can afford one of these homes, then they can afford a generator.

One does not need a large generator in our area for emergency backup. I think many could get along with 5 kW. Also extremely few in our area have solar power. If you have solar power without battery backup, then you are not much better off than no generator.

When the problem is at a high voltage level, then it gets fixed faster.

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gar said:
If you have solar power without battery backup, then you are not much better off than no generator.
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Drop the "much" :)

I have a 15 year old Honda EU 2000 that covers my fridge, lights (all LED) and TV (40w). The last outage (5 days in 2017) made me spend $450 to get a Champion 2000w inverter to run a window AC in my converted garage. It keeps the humidity down in most of the house.

But, it's not automated, I have to "hook it up". :) My pockets stink because that buffalo gets squeezed so hard it defecates. :)

I don't think we have ever lost power in the winter, always summer (hurricanes).
 
oldsparky52 said:
But, it's not automated, I have to "hook it up". :) My pockets stink because that buffalo gets squeezed so hard it defecates. :)
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"Of course you "hooked it up" using a manual tranfer switch as opposed to simpoly backfeeding :)
 
gar said:
210813-0737 EDT

mbrooke:

If you bring up https://outage.dteenergy.com/map and expand the view so you see much of the DTE area you will see hugh areas north and south of Ann Arbor that are without power. This implies problems feeding substations.

The outage map still shows us out of power, but we have had power back since around 5 PM yesterday.

I don't loose power very often, and for 20 years I have had a generator so it is not a big problem for me. Different for my neighbors. What I don't understand is why so many neighbors don't have backup generators. Home prices have gone sky high, and if they can afford one of these homes, then they can afford a generator.

One does not need a large generator in our area for emergency backup. I think many could get along with 5 kW. Also extremely few in our area have solar power. If you have solar power without battery backup, then you are not much better off than no generator.

When the problem is at a high voltage level, then it gets fixed faster.

.
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

Could be substantial distro and/or sub transmission damage alone (around me I've had stations that had every outgoing circuit impacted, though transmission could be effected as well.

What were the peak wind gusts?
 
DTE is the minor supplier of electricity in Michigan. Consumers Energy is the largest (area wise) and then there are smaller coops. You have to look at the outage maps separately. Google Consumers Energy Michigan Outage Map to see the larger part of the outage. Consumers and DTE combined serve about 90% of Michigan.

This screen shot is the way it is now.
 

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210813-1307 EDT

Now the DTE outage map shows my neighborhood with power, but others surrounding me are still out on the map.

In Dearborn, Greenfield Village, Ford Research, Ford World Headquarters, Ford Rouge Plant, and other Ford property have no outage. Ford originally had a power plant at the Rouge. After an explosion at this facility Ford commissioned Consumer Power to build a new power plant across the street from the Rouge. In West Dearborn Ford had a power plant for steam, cooling, and I believe electricity. This is still there. I suspect there are interlinks between the various Ford properties that allow the new Rouge power plant to supply power to any and all these different locations.

It should be noted that Ford had his own coal sources, and railroad. Coal was needed to make steel. and could also make electrical power.

At the old Ford Highland Park plant Ford had about 12 large DC generators ( 25,000 A at 240 V, that would mean peak power capability of 6 megawatts ) to power the plant. Installed in the early 1910s. One of these generators is in the Henry Ford Museum. When Ford started the Rouge plant in the late 1910s and early 20s he built a large power plant at the Rouge. This was at least mostly AC. There was a power line from the Rouge to Highland Park to provide Ford AC power to the Highland Park Plant.

Steel making includes open hearth furnaces, and other types. Some of this heating is electric, and then electric power is needed for rolling mill operations.

It is beneficial to have your own generation capability.

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gar said:
210813-0737 EDT
... Home prices have gone sky high, and if they can afford one of these homes, then they can afford a generator. ...
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I think there's a subconscious assumption at work here.

If they bought (or refinanced) the house in recent decades, there's a pretty good chance that they can't actually afford them. It's likely that it was a stretch to move into the neighborhood and they're drowning in house-loan interest, especially if they refinanced or took out a home-equity loan to cope with the pandemic.

And they might be doing a simple cost-benefit calculation: One fridge worth of spoiled food and a few nights in a hotel vs. $10-15k for a whole-house generator, automatic transfer switch and installation. And after the cluster-**** in Texas this year, they might also lack confidence in the natural-gas infrastructure.
 
augie47 said:
"Of course you "hooked it up" using a manual tranfer switch as opposed to simpoly backfeeding :)
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Nope, I disconnected the hots of the circuits I wanted to power and connected them to the generator hot while taking the generator neutral to the neutral bar (outside panel next to the meterbase), generator has a floating neutral and it gets grounded just like the PoCo service neutral.
 
drcampbell said:
... And after the cluster-**** in Texas this year, they might also lack confidence in the natural-gas infrastructure.
Click to expand...

We just passed the one-year anniversary of the derecho that crossed Iowa and ran through Illinois, Wisconsin and Indiana before petering out.

Cedar Rapids Iowa had 140 MPH peak winds, and many areas had hurricane force winds for more than 30 minutes. Mid American Energy had a record 325 gas leak calls that day due to lines broken by uprooted trees and meters struck by trees. The tree canopy there was largely destroyed, not to mention the power grid...a lot of people had no power for two weeks.

North of my house, several miles of two 69kV circuits were damaged or destroyed. We were on generator for only 4 days.
 
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