power-save 1200

[dcl34769]

Has anyone out there used or installed the power-save 1200 power factor corecting unit? The company I work for just had a demonstration and want to start pushing this on our customers as an up-sell. Personally I think this is a load of bull___. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[cadpoint]

Just a box of Rocks -IMO

Just a box of Rocks -IMO

Input in most cases is always more than the output, when the ratio changes, you'll know...(or hear about it).
I have no point of reference to your product !

 

[dezwitinc]

Check Mike Holt's newsletter dated August 23, 2007 for info on this subject at mikeholt.com.

 

[celtic]

http://www.power-save1200.com/product.html

This thing?

STOP PAYING FOR WASTED ELECTRICITY; INSTALL THE POWER-SAVE 1200? & SAVE UP TO 25% PER MONTH ON YOUR ELECTRIC BILL!

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$299.95[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[dcl34769]

Yes celtic, my shop is starting to push these things and I don't see the usefulness in a residential application. From what I understand all it realy is is a capacitor to help with power factor correction, but imo residential loads really don't really have many heavy motor loads like industrial plants.

 

[cadpoint]

Thanks Celtic:

Seems like it might be on the verge of the next big thing / don't know.

I'll stay with the intermatic water heater timer and a timer on the F. Fan ...... Maybe one day, I'll get the Bigs to turn off the power when not in use.

 

[celtic]

Do you know the charge to install these things (labor+material)..on average?

 

[dcl34769]

We are doing them for close to $400. Not bad for 15min of work.

 

[celtic]

We are doing them for close to $400. Not bad for 15min of work.

You can't be buying them at $300 per unit

 

[eric stromberg]

Has anyone out there used or installed the power-save 1200 power factor corecting unit? The company I work for just had a demonstration and want to start pushing this on our customers as an up-sell. Personally I think this is a load of bull___. Any feedback is appreciated.

Rest assured, it is a scam.

The only way it could possibly work would be if it were connected to the A/C compressor units. It would have to have a bank of capacitors sized for each unit and it would have to switch on and off with the units. All of this in a little box that fits neatly in the bottom of the breaker panel? I think not.

 

[tallguy]

Rest assured, it is a scam.

The only way it could possibly work would be if it were connected to the A/C compressor units. It would have to have a bank of capacitors sized for each unit and it would have to switch on and off with the units. All of this in a little box that fits neatly in the bottom of the breaker panel? I think not.

Oh come on now... don't be so cynical. It's all explained in the FAQ. I can't for the life of me fathom how it keeps the electrons away from the inductive loads while letting them flow otherwise... Unfortunately, someone would need to pony up $300 to rip it apart to see what is actually in there.

 

[charlie b]

I can't for the life of me fathom how it keeps the electrons away from the inductive loads while letting them flow otherwise... Unfortunately, someone would need to pony up $300 to rip it apart to see what is actually in there.

What is in there is a set of one or more capacitors. You can buy them at Radio Shack for a few bucks, and achieve the same thing.

I agree that this is a scam. They are telling no lies, but they are pushing a product that costs far, far more than it will give back.

You can only save what you are wasting. If you don?t have much by way of motor loads, and my house has virtually none (i.e., no significant KVAR loads), then there is nothing for this device to save you. That is the ?unspoken lie,? the basis of the scam.

To answer your question, and it is a good question, this device would not ?keep electrons away from the inductive loads, while letting them flow otherwise.? What it does is cause the electrons to flow back and forth between the inductive loads (in the house) and the capacitors (inside the device). This happens downstream of the meter, and therefore the utility is not measuring this current. If you did not have the capacitor connected, then there would be, in addition to the ?real load? drawn by devices inside the house, an exchange of current between the inductors (inside the house) and the utility?s inductors (i.e., the transformer on the pole across the street). That additional current will pass through the meter, will be included in your monthly electric bill.

So as I said earlier, they tell no lie. This thing can save money. But it can only save money if the house has enough inductive load to cause the electric bill to increase significantly. Nothing that the do say is a; but they do not ?tell the whole story,? and that, in my opinion, constitutes a lie.

 

[coulter]

Caution: Rant ahead

Every residential power meter I've ever seen only charges for real power. Vars are not charged. So other than copper losses, I don't see how residential power factor correction could save any money at all.

Let's take a look at the copper losses. As I understand, this thing is installed in the main panel, so any inductive load copper losses from the panel out to the device are not mitigated. So the only piece left is the copper from the main panel to the meter - generally fat wire and short. Not much loss there.

Now for the case where the inductive device is off. Now the caps make the pf go leading, current is up. So what is being saved while the load is on is wasted while the load is off. Gee, sounds like the customer is as well off with the $aver as without it - well, not quite as well off, they have less money.

Save 25% on ones electric bill by getting rid of copper losses - That's a flat out lie. Save 1% on ones electrical bill - That's a lie.

Personal opinion: Any company selling them is part of the lie.

Okay getting off my soapbox - thank you for your time

carl

 

[charlie b]

The company I work for just had a demonstration and want to start pushing this on our customers as an up-sell.

Have you read enough to take back to the company leadership? Perhaps when they realize that their reputation is at stake, they will reconsider their plan.

Keep this in mind: At some point down the road, and I am guessing it will be no more than 4-6 months, the customers onto whom your company had "pushed" this device, as an up-sell, are going to wake up to the fact that their electric bills have not dropped enough to justify the cost of the device. A customer that does not become unhappy until six months have passed is still an unhappy customer. As I said, it's your company's reputation.

 

[charlie b]

Every residential power meter I've ever seen only charges for real power. Vars are not charged. So other than copper losses, I don't see how residential power factor correction could save any money at all.

I hadn't thought of that. OK, we have here the Number One Reason not to be "pushing" this device onto residential customers. Bravo, Coulter! :smile:

 

[mdshunk]

I started getting calls from people to put these things in a couple months ago. Somehow, and I'm not quite sure how, I ended up on their list of "certified installers" for this crap. I'm definately not pushing this technology, but if someone wants me to put one it, I'll certainly do it. Just don't ask me what I think about it, or ask me if I really think they'll save any money.

 

[dcl34769]

Celtic: our cost is $257 to purchase from our supplier.
Charlie b: I will be talking to the powers that be to try to dump this product.
Rest assured I have not and will not push these down our customers throats.
Thanks for the input from all.

 

[petersonra]

I had read somewhere not that long ago that there was some sort of initiative to improve residential PF. Supposedly it costs utilities some ungodly amount of money to deal with the poor PF in most residences.

One of the things being suggested was that AC motors in most household appliances would have to have some kind of PF capacitor included, or have some kind of electronic drive. I don't know that it is going very far. I have to wonder if the choppy current waveform of drive input sections with lots of little VFDs would do the distribution system any net good.

 

[brian john]

257.00 X 1.5 = 385.00
3 X 80.00/85.00/90.00/95.00/100.00/105.00/?= 240.00 or more
(3 hours labor any way you cut it with travel and time on job)

385.00 + 240.00 = 625.00
400.00-625.00= -225.00

Lets see make little or no money pushing a lousy product.
Bula Bula the customer.
WHAT A WINNING PRODUCT, how do I get on the certified installer list?

 

[celtic]

257.00 X 1.5 = 385.00
3 X 80.00/85.00/90.00/95.00/100.00/105.00/?= 240.00 or more
(3 hours labor any way you cut it with travel and time on job)

385.00 + 240.00 = 625.00
400.00-625.00= -225.00

Lets see make little or no money pushing a lousy product.
Bula Bula the customer.
WHAT A WINNING PRODUCT, how do I get on the certified installer list?

I was a bit more conservative with numbers...
275x1.25 = 343.75 ($68.75 markup)
400 - 343.75 = $56.25

...and I am ASSUMING, they are trying to sell these as they are already at the property.

I don't think I'd risk my reputation for these double digit numbers.