Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

[coke03p]

I am currently in charge of moving 13, 11KV feeders from an existing switch gear to a brand new, just installed switchgear. However, certain people in my chain of command want the switch to be done in the trench with the rest of the cables still energized in order to maintain as much service as possible. So you understand better, the cables are laid haphazardly at best, in a trench that is 200 meters long from the existing switchgear to the new switchgear. I have to have my teams shut down one feeder, disconnect it, drag it through the trench with the 12 other live 11KV feeders in it, and terminate and reconnect in the new switchgear, re-energizing it. I have said time and time again that this cannot be safe, working in a trench with live 11KV lines, some of which have poorly done splices, seeing as the cables are laying in the trench, crossing each other and buried in certain spots. Is there any sort of code or OSHA guideline that I can refrence in order to make this work safer for my teams?

any help would be greatly appreciated,

SGT Jason M Petaccio
249th EN (Prime Power)
Camp Anaconda, Iraq

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

OSHA? In Iraq? The United Sates Military? In my honest opinion, this is way out of the scope of this forum.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

you jason are the authority over you and your men's safety! in your mind it is unsafe, what is it gonna take to make it safe -- i would think separate trenches --- the part about splices scares me! common sense prevales here!

 

[coke03p]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

look guys i understand that it is unsafe, thats why i am trying to find specific rules against stuff like this. You have to understand that I am in the military and people appointed above me dont want to hear "well common sense says...." because thats not a good enough answer. I need to be able to back up my statements that it is unsafe. I found some articles in the IEEE books but i am still looking for more. I am working with existing, 11KV feeder lines that were put in the ground over 30 years ago, already unsafe i know this, but i have to get it done. I am trying to get my officer to shut down the power plant while i move the cables but I have to have hard evidence to do this because power is a pretty critical thing over here as you can imagine.

 

[physis]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

My comment is going to be perfectly worthless to you but I'm going to say it anyway.

If the obvious danger here isn't sufficient to sway the judgement of your superiors I hardly think that some code or article that has no authority over them to begin with is going to amount to anything more than what you've probably already said to them.

Edit: I'm not very familiar with osha or I would try to give you something you could use.

[ February 07, 2005, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

SGT Petaccio, I have to agree with bphgravity in that there is little we can do for you.

OSHA is definitely out of the picture, normally I could count on OSHA regs to protect me.

NFPA safety rules are probably not going to help.

Not knowing much about the Military I do not know what things you can refuse to do without being brought up on charges.

Is it possible to use poly rope to drag the cables from outside the trench?

Good luck to you in all respects and Thanks for your sacrifices.

Bob

 

[roger]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

Jason, you can try here for some information.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/construction/electrical_incidents/powerlines.html

See the "Additional Information" on the lower part of the page, specifically the first paragraph when you click on 1926.416(A)

You can also show them the pictures on this OSHA page

Maybe showing it to your superiors will wake them up.

Good Luck, and I hope you all can come home soon

Roger

[ February 07, 2005, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[petersonra]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

The way they are asking you to perform this task seems incredibly dangerous. Your superiors may not have any idea what could happen. I don't know where they are, but I have seen on other web sites short video clips showing what could happen.

Maybe someone here knows where these clips can be found and point you in that direction. Show them to your superiors. If they can still sleep at night ordering you to do this work in such an unsafe way, hopefully the risk is worth it.

If forced to do it this way, protect yourself as best you can, and keep the bare minimum number of people in the immediate vicinity.

You might want to ask your superiors to provide medical coverage nearby just so they understand how dangerous what they want done is, but also to take care of any injuries that may occur.

Make sure that if an accident occurs you have some means of shutting down this line quickly. Maybe a radio link back to the switchgear. These things can arc and spark for a long period of time and if someone is caught in it, a quick shutoff might save a life.

This is a situation where military expediency might override personal safety concerns. I don't think anyone here is qualified to make that judgement.

By the way, Americans really appreciate and believe in what you are doing there, regardless of what you might think from the press coverage. It is a dirty, rotten, and underpaid job that you guys volunteered for so the rest of us can sleep at night. I, for one, am deeply thankful for your efforts.

 

[ken987]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

By the way, Americans really appreciate and believe in what you are doing there, regardless of what you might think from the press coverage. It is a dirty, rotten, and underpaid job that you guys volunteered for so the rest of us can sleep at night. I, for one, am deeply thankful for your efforts.

You Have said it all
HOO RA

 

[friebel]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

To: Sgt. Jason M. Petaccio

I would document my concerns to the next in command, and if that does not help out, I would request with documentation to see the next in command. I would keep right on going up till I got the right person who will listen to my concerns.
It is too late after the fact, if their happens to be an incident, and we have someone killed, burned or injured, because we did not do the right thing.
I know that if you are correct with your Safety concerns that your superiors will appreciate your informing them of an unsafe situation.
It could mean the end of the line for their career for promotion if their was an incident and their were fatalities or injured.
Do all of this in a proper respective way and I know that you will gain the respect of your superiors.
Sometimes, you will have people who do not realize the dangers of working around 11,000 volts. And you mention splices, I wish that I were to help you out. God-Bless you and the troops.

 

[rbalex]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

Sergeant,

First, please add me to the list of those who are deeply grateful for you and your colleague?s service.

The Corps of Engineers, NAVFAC, Air Force Civil Engineers, etc are all familiar with OSHA and, buried within their own regulations, are commitments to follow the OSHA regulations in absence of a bona fide National Security issue.

The primary applicable OSHA regulations are 29CFR1926.416 and 29CFR1910.333

Friebel has offered some excellent advice: document your concerns. OSHA also enforces NFPA 70E that describes ?Work On or Near Live Parts.? Part of the 70E requirements are a ?Live Work? permit which ultimately requires the sign-off of your CO acknowledging the danger and mitigations taken to work safely.

[ February 08, 2005, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: rbalex ]

 

[petersonra]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

take a look at some of these videos.

http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm

 

[69boss302]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

SGT, I spent 17 years in the Navy as an electrician. I was a Chief Petty Officer (E-7) for more than 8 of those years. I had to send guys to do dangerous things with electricity all the time. Make sure they use some kind of safety gear. 11KV gear is hard to work on things with but it is up to you to ensure the safety of your guys. I commend you on your concern for them. The question always came down to me as which item is more safe. The power some one needs or working live. The situation you are in it is impossible to tell. I used to tell my guys the line when they wanted to jump in and be a hero in these things "ever notice how most the hero's are dead". Is it worth their life. Needless to say I took some hard stands and paid the price, yet I would probably do it all over again. Just remember you need your guys to work for you again tomorrow also.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Power Technicians Working in 11Kv live trench

as you said this power is very important---now you and i know it ain't important enough to get you or your men killed over---but maybe explaining that a blow up could shut the whole base down without warning and remaining that way for some unknown amount of time-- may get them thinking in the right direction. as suggested, i would suspend every cable in air and stay clear and minimize moving them.

i would suggest getting some of those"insurgents" to handle them --- but that would be "abuse" so i guess we'll have our own men at risk!!!