- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Powerworx
- Thread starter Dennis Alwon
- Start date
- Status
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
It's some sort of white collar scam.
We talked about something similar on this forum a few weeks ago.
I'll see if I can find the thread.
We talked about something similar on this forum a few weeks ago.
I'll see if I can find the thread.
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Most homes have a PF of .77 or less? Is that true?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
chris kennedy said:
I have no idea. I figured the engineers would explain how this is impossible. I thought it was Bull.
gar
Senior Member
- Location
- Ann Arbor, Michigan
- Occupation
- EE
080531-2146 EST
Dennis:
The choice of words and how they are used makes it look like a scam.
That little box is not storing much energy. Power factor is much more important to the utility than to the end user. It only relates to some additional lost power in the wiring after the meter. In the winter this helps heat the house. An average voltage drop within a house might be 2 V @ 10 A for 10 hours per day (this is a wild selection of some numbers to allow an energy calculation). That is 200 watt hours or 0.2 KWH or $0.11*0.2 = $0.022per day. Not all of this would be from reactive current. My 10 A came from 1 KWH average per day 10 * 120 is 1200 W. So maybe I should use 20 A instead of 10. Still it is only 4 times the small cost calculated.
However, what is a waste is over driving magnetic cores. Transformers and motors. By reducing the operating voltage this magnetizing current can be reduced and motor or transformer temperature rise reduced. As I mentioned before this concept is cover by a NASA patent of quite a few years ago.
.
Dennis:
The choice of words and how they are used makes it look like a scam.
That little box is not storing much energy. Power factor is much more important to the utility than to the end user. It only relates to some additional lost power in the wiring after the meter. In the winter this helps heat the house. An average voltage drop within a house might be 2 V @ 10 A for 10 hours per day (this is a wild selection of some numbers to allow an energy calculation). That is 200 watt hours or 0.2 KWH or $0.11*0.2 = $0.022per day. Not all of this would be from reactive current. My 10 A came from 1 KWH average per day 10 * 120 is 1200 W. So maybe I should use 20 A instead of 10. Still it is only 4 times the small cost calculated.
However, what is a waste is over driving magnetic cores. Transformers and motors. By reducing the operating voltage this magnetizing current can be reduced and motor or transformer temperature rise reduced. As I mentioned before this concept is cover by a NASA patent of quite a few years ago.
.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Their was an other thread on one of these that was not a powerworx model.
It was a different brand. But no body liked it.
I imagine we will see lot's more of this type of device that are advertised to save energy.
Somebody said they seen it advertised on tv.
It was a different brand. But no body liked it.
I imagine we will see lot's more of this type of device that are advertised to save energy.
Somebody said they seen it advertised on tv.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
A watt-hour meter really responds to volts and amps, but reads out in watts (over time). As a load PF decreases, the meter slows, so the POCO can't charge you for all of the power it has to deliever for the load to perform, unless they surcharge.
(Note: PF can also be measured for accurate "penalization" or for applying cost-effective correction.)
When some people hear that a capacitor 'releases energy back into the line', they're forgetting that the cap has to be charged between discharges. The effect provided by PF correction is a very local one, other than spinning the meter.
The 'other brand' is being advertised around here now.
(Note: PF can also be measured for accurate "penalization" or for applying cost-effective correction.)
When some people hear that a capacitor 'releases energy back into the line', they're forgetting that the cap has to be charged between discharges. The effect provided by PF correction is a very local one, other than spinning the meter.
The 'other brand' is being advertised around here now.
- Status