Prevailing Wage

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fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
I know that I have brought this question up before but have not got a definitive answer. Could someone here tell me/show me in writing where a person/electrician must be licensed in order to receive prevailing wage on a Federal/Davis-Bacon covered job. I have asked this question to the United States Department Of Labor but did not get a definitive answer. I am being told by my ex-employer that the "contracting officer" for the job told him that in order to receive prevailing wage for "electrician" that person must be licensed. I have requested documentation that states this but to date have not received anything.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Could someone here tell me/show me in writing where a person/electrician must be licensed in order to receive prevailing wage on a Federal/Davis-Bacon covered job. I have requested documentation that states this but to date have not received anything.
You are not going to recieve anything like that because it doesn't exist. Many jobs that require the payment of prevailing wage don't require a license even for the contractor.

If you do electrical work on a prevailing wage job then you are paid prevailing wage and the only way around it is to be part of an approved apprenticeship program.

The key is actually doing the work, not management and not just a laborer but doing electrical work. That's the requirement.
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
You are not going to recieve anything like that because it doesn't exist. Many jobs that require the payment of prevailing wage don't require a license even for the contractor.

If you do electrical work on a prevailing wage job then you are paid prevailing wage and the only way around it is to be part of an approved apprenticeship program.

The key is actually doing the work, not management and not just a laborer but doing electrical work. That's the requirement.
Thank you for your reply, I was told by a friend who still works for the company, that the owner posted a paper that says you must be licensed to receive prevailing wage.
 

K2X

Senior Member
Location
Colorado Springs
I just got layed off of a prevailing wage job at one of the military bases in Colorado Springs. I am BAT certified , (Bureau of Apprentice Training), 8th period apprentice and my pay was about 75% of the Journeyman's pay. 1st period pay is about half.

Bat goes by periods so an 8th period would be the second part of the 4th year,
3rd period would be the 1st part of the second year etc, but it doesn't go beyond the 8th so if guy doesn't test out for the j-man then he stays at 8th until he does. Some employers like 8th period apprentices because they are cheaper and some employees consider staying at 8th because the chances of getting a DB job are greater.

It is my understanding that if an employer has a person, any person, doing electrical work and that person is not a BAT certified apprentice, then he must be paid as a Journeyman. It is also my understanding that DB pay can be retroactive so if an employer tries to scam around it he can get bit at some time in the future.

We actually started a DB job and our company didn't know anything about BAT and then did another DB where the GC was well versed in government contracts. We learned that it is very important to get this stuff right.

My small city has 5 military installations and I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of DB.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
does it matter if it is federal or state owned .???I found this for Connecticut Prevailing wage jobs.

ELECTRICIANS
Install, erect, maintenance, alteration or repair of any wire, cable, conduit, etc., which generates, transforms, transmits or uses electrical energy for light, heat, power or other purposes, including the Installation or maintenance of telecommunication, LAN wiring or computer equipment, and low voltage wiring. *License required per Connecticut General Statutes: E-1,2 L-5,6 C-5,6 T-1,2 L-1,2 V-1,2,7,8,9
.
 

Mr. Bill

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Prevaling wage applies to all workers on the site. The phrase used in the law is "laborers and mechanics". And that is defined as:
(m) The term laborer or mechanic includes at least those workers whose duties are manual or physical in nature (including those workers who use tools or who are performing the work of a trade), as distinguished from mental or managerial. The term laborer or mechanic includes apprentices, trainees, helpers, and, in the case of contracts subject to the Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act, watchmen or guards. The term does not apply to workers whose duties are primarily administrative, executive, or clerical, rather than manual. Persons employed in a bona fide executive, administrative, or professional capacity as defined in part 541 of this title are not deemed to be laborers or mechanics. Working foremen who devote more than 20 percent of their time during a workweek to mechanic or laborer duties, and who do not meet the criteria of part 541, are laborers and mechanics for the time so spent.

The question becomes at what wage rate.
(C) In the event the contractor, the laborers or mechanics to be employed in the classification or their representatives, and the contracting officer do not agree on the proposed classification and wage rate (including the amount designated for fringe benefits, where appropriate), the contracting officer shall refer the questions, including the views of all interested parties and the recommendation of the contracting officer, to the Administrator for determination. The Administrator, or an authorized representative, will issue a determination within 30 days of receipt and so advise the contracting officer or will notify the contracting officer within the 30-day period that additional time is necessary.

From the DOL FAQ website
Question: How do workers on a construction site know that a project is covered by the Davis-Bacon Act? How do they know the prevailing wage to which they are entitled?

Answer: The wage determination (including any additional classifications and wage rates conformed) and a Davis-Bacon poster (WH-1321) must be posted at all times by the contractor and its subcontractors at the site of the work in a prominent and accessible place where it can be easily seen. The WH-1321 poster may be obtained at no charge from offices of the Wage and Hour Division. In the absence of such posted information, any person who wants to determine if the project is covered should contact the federal agency funding or assisting the project or the Wage and Hour Division. Multi-year construction contracts that contain option provisions by which a contracting agency may unilaterally extend the term of the contract require inclusion of a current wage determination at the time the option is exercised. In contrast, in situations where a contractor is given additional time to complete original contract commitments, the wage determination in that contract applies.


Have fun fishing around for more information. Here's a place to start.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs66.pdf
 

TxShocker

Member
Location
Texas
I was told by a friend who still works for the company, that the owner posted a paper that says you must be licensed to receive prevailing wage.
He (the boss) is full of it. On a DB job, you do anything that is electrical you get J pay unless you are in an accredited app program. 90% of my work is DB jobs, been doing them for 15-20 years.
 

Rewire

Senior Member
Years back we were on a prevailing wage job and one of the guys was talking about making more money on this job when the A/C guys asked what he was talking about so he shows them the wage scale in the spec book , well the AC contractor ended up paying back wages to his guys.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
does it matter if it is federal or state owned .???I found this for Connecticut Prevailing wage jobs.

.
On state jobs each state makes their own rules for public construction wage rates.

On Federally jobs the rules are all the same. The only exception being that the local unions are used as a determination of what class of worker does what kind of work. An example would be that in some areas linemen do certain work that an electrician might do in another jurisdiction
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I know that I have brought this question up before but have not got a definitive answer. Could someone here tell me/show me in writing where a person/electrician must be licensed in order to receive prevailing wage on a Federal/Davis-Bacon covered job. I have asked this question to the United States Department Of Labor but did not get a definitive answer. I am being told by my ex-employer that the "contracting officer" for the job told him that in order to receive prevailing wage for "electrician" that person must be licensed. I have requested documentation that states this but to date have not received anything.
On a federal construction job the workers don't even need a license.

If a person does electrical work on a DB job the person is owed the wages listed in the wage determination. The WD is part of the specifications for the project. There are no exceptions.

Back wages can be obtained for a period of time if you were under paid. Get the Contracting officer to acknowledge he is going after your money. Ask him if he is withholding contract payments to insure you are paid. It will take a while but you will get the money unless the statute of limitations has run out.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Thank you for your reply, I was told by a friend who still works for the company, that the owner posted a paper that says you must be licensed to receive prevailing wage.
A bum off the street is owed the full prevailing wage if he does the work of an electrician. THe only exception is if he is an apprentice in a state recognized apprentice program. In that case he is owed a percentage of the rate based on his time in the program.
 

rgiraldo

Member
Location
FL
As for my experience, the prevailing wage is different per location. One of the jobs Ft.Bragg, the prevailing wage was a lot lower then my pay. I think $15 HR. Now the wage has change, I think any contract signed after June or something like that. But what I heard from other co-workers on other location the rate went up to $30 something (JW)

Out in WV I was getting $4 bucks for every man hour worked.

Now this what I have seen around me. And thats after working on 4 Gov jobs..
 

e57

Senior Member
PW is legalized theft from the public IMO.... (A scam - paying artificially inflated wages, then companies marking up profit based on those artificial wages... A "why pay less than the most you can pay" law....) That said, not playing by the rules of PW is direct theft from the employee, and blatantly illegal theft from the public.
 

K2X

Senior Member
Location
Colorado Springs
Here, residential military base housing DB can pay 25% to 50% less than a commercial type job on the same base.
Also the absense of a local union means the DB scale is based off the non-union scale which for some trades in my city means about equal pay on either side of the gate. Here, for example, the IBEW is at least present so us non-union guys get to reap the benifits or better yet, Scale, plus take the bennies in cash.:grin: The drywallers, paperhangers, and painters here are not organized at all and them boys can starve to death on a DB job.:mad:
 

satcom

Senior Member
PW is legalized theft from the public IMO.... (A scam - paying artificially inflated wages, then companies marking up profit based on those artificial wages... A "why pay less than the most you can pay" law....) That said, not playing by the rules of PW is direct theft from the employee, and blatantly illegal theft from the public.
I am sure PW is not inflated, in may even be a little on the low side, the rate not only carries the employees direct wage, it has all the burden costs, including medical, pension, and all the local, state, and fed taxes, included in the rate.
For many years there has been some guys who look at the PW pay and gripe about it, without understanding the system, but they do understand they are union companies, and workers, If not for the gains made over many hard years by the unions, wages iand benifits in the construction idustries, would be below living wages in most cases.
There is a fear to talk about anything union, on this site, and I think it is because some don,t understand the real facts of both union and non union issues, the more we learn to discuess the facts of each side, the closer we may come to gaining a good understanding and see we are both in the same boat, and can gain more by learning our differences, then holding a hard line, no communication will never resolve a thing.

Just operate your business as a profit driven business and pay yourself all the benifits, and the earnings will even out.

How about we look at the PW issues, and see what we can gain from them.
 
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