Price fixing is illegal - price sharing is not

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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
Did you know that at plumbing supply houses, they post prices of what the guys are charging? just sharing information. some may not post it out in the open but the guy behind the counter knows. They share what they are charging - bathroom - (sink, toilet, shower - X amount) service calls x per hour, etc.
I always wondered why EC's don't do that. at least the bids would be real close and the low guy would still make great money.

Is that possible to do? or do you think that EC's want to be secretive about their pricing? seems dumb to me to hide it.
if everyone used estimating software maybe the prices would be closer as well.
Any thoughts?
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
CopperTone said:
Is that possible to do? or do you think that EC's want to be secretive about their pricing? seems dumb to me to hide it.
if everyone used estimating software maybe the prices would be closer as well.
Any thoughts?
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If EC's shared their prices in this same manner, the natural result is that the next guy would try to under cut it. ;)
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Price fixing is illegal, unless your a Bank fixing intrest rates, or a utility fixing so called plan prices, I guess if we call it a wiring plan, we can charge fixed rates?
 
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wireguru

Senior Member
wait a minute...what are you doing hanging out in a plumbing supply house? :confused: seeing how the other half lives?
 
B

BAHTAH

Senior Member
Location
United States
Job Quotes

Job Quotes

CopperTone said:
Did you know that at plumbing supply houses, they post prices of what the guys are charging? just sharing information. some may not post it out in the open but the guy behind the counter knows. They share what they are charging - bathroom - (sink, toilet, shower - X amount) service calls x per hour, etc.
I always wondered why EC's don't do that. at least the bids would be real close and the low guy would still make great money.

Is that possible to do? or do you think that EC's want to be secretive about their pricing? seems dumb to me to hide it.
if everyone used estimating software maybe the prices would be closer as well.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The bidding process is the problem. Its always about the lowest price and not about who is providing what is called for. The blame goes to everyone from Engineers who do not hold their specifications, to Owners that do not really understand what is required for a proper installation, to General Contractors who only know one thing "price" and to Electrical Contractors who are always willing to undercut the next guy. Is anyone really wanted the correct price projects would be bid with the high and low price being thrown out.
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Some of the contractors' associations in my area publish suggested minimum rates for things like service upgrades, hot tub installs, etc., but it is published to the members only. I recently tried to get my association to publish something like this so I took it on my own to do a blind survey. I came to a meeting with some 30 surveys and only got back 11. Most of the guys didn't take it seriously. However, when I published the results everyone seemed to want a copy. A vast majority were more interested in what the neighboring county (and a wealthier county) was charging for their services.

This all started when I did some work for a plumbing contractor doing work in the wealthier county. I charged him $95/hr plus materials marked up 20%. When he went to write me out a check I asked what he was getting for his work and he said $160/hr.

It seems as though the vast majority of plumbers stick together with respect to labor prices but us electricians take every opportunity to cut each others throats. I can't figure it out. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather work at a higher level and get paid what I deserve (within reason) rather than bottom feed and be the lowest bidder.
 
Rockyd

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Is anyone really wanted the correct price projects would be bid with the high and low price being thrown out.
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A statement of qualification to bid said type of project might help too. A romex king doesn't possess the same set of skills as say a contractor who bids excluswively on waste water projects.
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
It seems as though the vast majority of plumbers stick together with respect to labor prices but us electricians take every opportunity to cut each others throats. I can't figure it out. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather work at a higher level and get paid what I deserve (within reason) rather than bottom feed and be the lowest bidder.
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Yes, and that is why they make more money than us.
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Okay, I'll go first. I get $88 to reset a GFCI. If you want to know why it tripped, or possibly have me do something to keep it from happening again, that will cost more.
 
stickboy1375

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
mdshunk said:
Okay, I'll go first. I get $88 to reset a GFCI. If you want to know why it tripped, or possibly have me do something to keep it from happening again, that will cost more.
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I would charge $90, stop selling yourself short. :wink: In fact why not a nice 100 dollars? I just took my truck in to get repaired, got a quote for $3000, I never even blinked an eye, seems like it is just electricians that dont know what they are worth and what they should be charging.
 
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weressl

weressl

Esteemed Member
Location
Texas by the Gulf, geat crab, great shrimp
grant said:
The bidding process is the problem. Its always about the lowest price and not about who is providing what is called for. The blame goes to everyone from Engineers who do not hold their specifications, to Owners that do not really understand what is required for a proper installation, to General Contractors who only know one thing "price" and to Electrical Contractors who are always willing to undercut the next guy. Is anyone really wanted the correct price projects would be bid with the high and low price being thrown out.
Click to expand...

I always have a pre-bid meeting. This meeting usually occurs about 2 weeks after I issued the inquiry. All Contractors are present. We go over the entire set of the documents, the written specification, the plans and the materials that I purchased, usually engineered items or large bulk items where we have volume pricing leverage with some houses. Each Contractor hears the other's questions and all receive written clarification. If there are errors in the design, they are corrected before the project takes off. I loath change orders, because it means that I have not done my job. On hold items are covered by T&M or unit pricing. My Construction specification is not your standard drown-in-paper 'engineering specification' where the document is a CYA for Engineering Contractors. It is usually about 15 pages for a 1-3M$ job. It walks the Contractor through the job, preferably in sequence of construction, like a task list. It correlates with the drawings. I detail the materials I supply. The rest is covered by Technical Standards that are always the same.
At the end of the job they have to be happy and I have to be happy and both of us should feel that we had a fair deal. I do not go to baseball games or hunting trips, but every once-in-a-while share a lunch to establish some non-business relationship with those who work with me. I am not your pal nor am I your enemy. You MUST make a profit to do a good job for me, not just today, but that I can rely on you tomorrow.

Colluding with Contractors to shake out jobs on who gets when and what will get you nowhere with me. I know what the value of your work is and will be asking you for an itemized bid, so we can go over where your bid is high and where it is low, so neither will you overcharge me nor will you get caught short because you overlooked the item in the bid.

Through the 30+ years I was deposited once. As it turned out a small firm whose owner was already retired, but still owned a business hired somebody to run the business for the kids, who were not in the profession but were inheriting the business. So they hired this Texas slick and in the following two years they had all the work they can handle and then some. However, 90% of their Contract ended up in court, based on lawsuits the slick initiated. They sued us for ~300K and got 14K. Most of their cases wound up like that. Spent 3-4 times as much in lawyer’s fees. Of course the Company went out of business in five years after the slick showed up as nobody would ask them to bid.
 
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dezwitinc

dezwitinc

Senior Member
Location
Delray Beach, FL
weressl said:
I always have a pre-bid meeting. .
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Are your prebids mandatory?
I wish that all of them would be.
It would help to even the playing field.
We bid alot of public and utility work and I would say that at least 60% of the time, the apparent low bidder is not listed on the sign in sheet.
I think that alot of people pass on these meeting so they don't get to know too much about the project.
 
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emahler

Senior Member
for those of you who bid commercial projects, how many times do you call the supply house and get put on the list for a projects gear and lighting packages...we all get the same pricing (for the most part)...is that price fixing?
 
B

BAHTAH

Senior Member
Location
United States
Supplier Pricing

Supplier Pricing

emahler said:
for those of you who bid commercial projects, how many times do you call the supply house and get put on the list for a projects gear and lighting packages...we all get the same pricing (for the most part)...is that price fixing?
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Having spend many years in the wholesale end of the business, bidding projects, I can tell you that unless you are local, have a relationship that includes doing business on a regular basis with that wholesale house, you will not get the best price. Just like Electrical Contractors using the Bid Box, the wholesale house is looking at who will be their best partner in getting the project. If several contractors submit, as an example, a fixture count and they are different, the wholesale quote will say its per your count but if yours is the low count the wholesale house will still cover the higher count and so will the fixture rep's. If your count turns out to be correct, the whole house made some extra money.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
in my area, plumbers and hvac are always very close on price (there are a couple that undercut); electricians will cut your throat out and feed it to you while stomping your face with a hobnail boot.
 
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