Primary service

[mgookin]

So, maybe this is what you were trying to say?

correct

 

[ActionDave]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[iwire]

I've done a whole lot of trenching with a backhoe and a whole lot more with an excavator. It's much better than 75% efficiency. With a backhoe you spend more time moving the machine than you do digging. With an excavator you're constantly digging.

I don't understand this, here backhoe operators move the machine from the rear position, often by just using the bucket so how is that different from moving an excavator?

Either way you stop digging to move the machine.

 

[iwire]

Boy, I should be in the excavating business. 12k sounds like a lot of money to me. I dug a 600 trench with my tractor/backhoe and it took me about 9 hours, so that would be 18 for 1200. Say a more efficient machine like a mini excavator can do it in 75% of that so about 14 hours at $75 is about a grand. My numbers didnt include backfilling IIRC. Even with a chunk of profit, seems like a lot. Lots of variables too though, do trees/stumps need to be cleared, soil conditions, bedrock......someone giving a quote will likely figure near worse case scanario if they dont know the conditions there.

Your pipe and wire about about 11k. Maybe 100 man hours - 4 guys three days - to run the pipe and wire?

Too bad its delta so you need 2 primary cables......

You seem to be assuming the excavator is backfilling with the removed material. We don't know if they have to bring in some soft fill.

 

[electrofelon]

You seem to be assuming the excavator is backfilling with the removed material. We don't know if they have to bring in some soft fill.

Sure, that is a possibility, although its all pvc so I assumed not. I was assuming somewhat normal dirt too which we have no idea about

I don't get the backhoe comment. Were you saying that they just lift the stabilizers and push the machine back with the backhoe? Usually the loader is planted too which makes that not work. Maybe a big machine doesn't need the loader planted, but mine gets thrown around like a rag doll if it's not.

 

[mgookin]

I don't understand this, here backhoe operators move the machine from the rear position, often by just using the bucket so how is that different from moving an excavator?

Either way you stop digging to move the machine.

With a backhoe loader you have to change positions from back to front, raise your outriggers and raise your bucket, move the machine a few feet, then lower your outriggers and bucket and reverse back to the rear facing position every time you run out of boom or every time a rock moves the machine.

With an excavator you're sitting on the tracks and you may lower the blade or you may not. You're always facing the same direction. To move the machine is instant. No moving of the operator, no outriggers, etc. It's just much faster and it makes for a better job.

 

[iwire]

With a backhoe loader you have to change positions from back to front, raise your outriggers and raise your bucket, move the machine a few feet, then lower your outriggers and bucket and reverse back to the rear facing position every time you run out of boom or every time a rock moves the machine.

That is not how I see the fast guys do it here.

They put a load of material in the front bucket for weight, they leave the front bucket off the ground a bit. They plant the outriggers down and start digging with the hoe, when they need to move they use the hoe to lift the rear of the machine and push it ahead, continue digging and repeat.


Of course this approach will not work so well on steep hills, in that case yeah an excavator is going to be faster and likely safer.

 

[mgookin]

...

They put a load of material in the front bucket for weight, they leave the front bucket off the ground a bit. They plant the outriggers down and start digging with the hoe, when they need to move they use the hoe to lift the rear of the machine and push it ahead, continue digging and repeat....

Sounds like a cool trick. I've never done nor seen that. It would have to be good earth to dig in I imagine.

The time savings with the excavator is the time to move the machine. It's a very fluid process.

 

[kwired]

my material cost was around 13k for pipe,wire,transformer vault ,meter and panel in barn. Being that there was some unknown with how the ditch would run I figured some extra for time bending pipe etc. We figured 4 guys to do whole project 7 days. Service will be going through the woods around some trees it's not a straight shot. Exavator says he can do whole procect for 12 k or less.

Do you have trees the whole way?

Most 1300-1400 runs for irrigation services I have done only take a day to do as long as you don't run into something buried that causes troubles. If you have 4 guys and one machine - there is going to be a lot of man hours that don't get much work done, if you have one guy digging and the others show up once significant trench has been dug you can make more use of those man hours.

You could get one man started digging trench - maybe a little ahead of everyone else so there is trench to work in when others get there, then have others lay out material, install service panel in the building/perform other inside work though it sounds pretty limited. If the trench is far enough ahead those others can stay busy installing pipe in the trench and if possible a second machine and operator to start backfilling behind them.

 

[Sparky2008]

Do you have trees the whole way?

Most 1300-1400 runs for irrigation services I have done only take a day to do as long as you don't run into something buried that causes troubles. If you have 4 guys and one machine - there is going to be a lot of man hours that don't get much work done, if you have one guy digging and the others show up once significant trench has been dug you can make more use of those man hours.

You could get one man started digging trench - maybe a little ahead of everyone else so there is trench to work in when others get there, then have others lay out material, install service panel in the building/perform other inside work though it sounds pretty limited. If the trench is far enough ahead those others can stay busy installing pipe in the trench and if possible a second machine and operator to start backfilling behind them.

This will be 4 inch pvc schedule 40 and 80 plus 2400 feet of 2 inch pvc to install we clean and glue our pipe and yes it's in trees thru the woods. It's hard to tell you about the job you would half to see it to understand it. I just found it hard to believe that a Exavator could do the whole job including the meter and barn power for 12 k. My material cost was that much plus shipping of the primary wire. It's just one of those jobs. And we usually don't install primary that distance there are other companies that are more than well equipped to do it. We have done them 300 feet or so but for some reason the builder wanted us to try and do it

 

[kwired]

This will be 4 inch pvc schedule 40 and 80 plus 2400 feet of 2 inch pvc to install we clean and glue our pipe and yes it's in trees thru the woods. It's hard to tell you about the job you would half to see it to understand it. I just found it hard to believe that a Exavator could do the whole job including the meter and barn power for 12 k. My material cost was that much plus shipping of the primary wire. It's just one of those jobs. And we usually don't install primary that distance there are other companies that are more than well equipped to do it. We have done them 300 feet or so but for some reason the builder wanted us to try and do it

In trees through the woods sounds like maybe directional boring could save a lot of labor, even though directional boring is typically higher it may be the better way to do with this one. Do you know if the excavation company has such equipment?

And as I mentioned earlier - the owner or GC may want to verify just what the excavation company is bidding to do. Most I have been around just put in a pipe and leave a pull line in it.

 

[mgookin]

I am looking at installing primary underground to the pad mount fiberglass transformer. It would be 1200 ft of 4 inch pvc with 2 number 2 primary cables with wrapped neutrals. Also will be installing 2 2 inch pvc pipes for future with chase wires. We will be mounting a 325 amp meter by transformer on 2 6*6 pressure treated post then going from the meter 100 feet to a barn with 2 inch pvc to feed a 100 amp panel inside with 2 gfci's. Also should note all this is going up hill which makes it more difficult. They were quoted 25 k from 2 contractors and 12 k from the Exavator. Any thoughts on what I should bid to be fair on quote.

When you asked this question you made no mention about trenching through a forest.

You've also mentioned different lengths of pipe. Is all this in one trench? How long is the trench?

How deep does it need to be?