PROBLEMS WHEN MANUFACTURER REPS WRITE ARTICLES

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Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

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Westchester County, New York
There is an article in this months IAEI Newsletter (which can be read online if you do not have it).
It is about ground rods, and it is (in my opinion) misleading. It is written by a manufacturer's rep, and he states things in the article, that I believe are misleading. The problem is there are inspectors reading this article who will start inspecting according to what he wrote. He constantly mentions how he hopes the code revision during the next cycle will make it clear that ground rods will be required to be listed. They may be in the next cycle, who knows. But for now the typical rods that are installed are not required to be listed.
I am surprised that the IAEI permitted this article to be published.
Read the article and let me know if I am nuts.

It is at www.iaei.org
 
Re: PROBLEMS WHEN MANUFACTURER REPS WRITE ARTICLES

Pierre C Belarge said:
Read the article and let me know if I am nuts.
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No, you're sane, he's nuts. And not terribly qualified to be writing technical pieces for inspectors to read.
Jim Lund is the national sales manager for Galvan Industries. Formerly he worked for FCI/Burndy. He has a master?s degree in business administration (MBA) from Pepperdine University.
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He's a salesman, not an electrician or inspector. He's trying to sell listed ground rods, and maybe short-handled shovels. He did mention shoveling twice. He's either forgetful, or really likes to watch people shovel. :D

"How do you know if it's 8' deep?" Drive another one yourself if you don't believe me, that's how. :lol:
 
This guy mentions using a micrometer to measure the diameter of the ground rod. An inspector could also use a dial caliper to do the same task.

He shares the general disgruntlement with the "loose" conversions between metric and real American measurements although we blow it with our nominal system. [2 1/2" EMT being 3" in diameter.]

As for ascertaining the depth or length of the buried rod, he advises leaving one shovelful of dirt from the hole so the inspector can verify the UL stamp. Actually, with the rods I have used, there is a cone shaped divot on the driving, blunt end of the rod which will generally remain detectable even after the many thousands of sledge hammer blows needed to drive the #$&@ in.
He is fearful that the dubious contractor will manage to drive the rod only 2' into the cobblestone infested hardpan [shist?] and then cut the rest off and call it good. Actually, the wise apprentice knows this and cuts off 2' of the blunt end -- including the UL mark -- and drives this in and calls it good.

The rest of the copper coated 8' is left by the road for the copper thieves.

But if you want to nit-pick about 0.625" then how about the 25 ohm requirement in which two ground rods are just as good no matter what the ohms reading is?
~Peter
 
I expect slanted articles in a free magazine, but I don't really expect them in a publication like the IAEI. This is not the first time that it has happened. The first thing that I look at now when reading any article is the author information. Then I have an idea of where the slant is leaning.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The first thing that I look at now when reading any article is the author information. Then I have an idea of where the slant is leaning.
Don
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My older brother (the one with the college degrees :) ) explained that to me a long time ago...."...consider the source before before you consider the information presented."

Wise words from both of you.
 
It never occured to me that counterfeit ground rods were a big issue.

Suppose I use shots rather than clamps? How is anyone to know that it really was a shot rather than some bondo and bronze colored paint? :roll:
 
Pierre,

Pierre C Belarge said:
Bob
somehow I knew you would be the first to answer this.
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I would have been again but I waited till some others to posted. :lol:

Now I can go ahead.

We have a salesman writing a technical article who has no listed technical training.

I had no idea an MBA had anything at all to do with grounding electrodes.

Let me think hard and see if I can come up with a national sales manager's motivation for writing an article about a product he sells in a national inspectors magazine....hmmm....this is a toughie......

Passing along useful information?

No.

Concerned with the safety of the Country's electrical system?

No

Creating a support base of inspectors and others involved with the NEC early on for a future code proposal?

BINGO!

Celtic said:
My older brother (the one with the college degrees ) explained that to me a long time ago...."...consider the source before before you consider the information presented."
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No one does anything without some sort of motivating factor. I always try to figure out what is someones motivation for the action they have taken.

Once I see 'salesman' listed as an occupation the motivation is a forgone conclusion.

Any sales people I have meet never 'turn it off', 24/7 they are looking how to make sales. Facts and truths always seem to take a back seat to the goal of added sales.

Just my opinion, Bob
 
I sent an email to Mr. Lund inviting him to the forum.

Mr. Lund, you may be interested in the opinions your recent article in IAEI News is generating at Mike Holt's Code forum.

This is a forum with more than 27,800 members including CMP members, inspectors, engineers, instructors and like myself electricians.

Below is a direct link to the post concerning the article.

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeForum/viewtopic.php?t=25750

While reading it keep in mind that the posters on Mike's forum are generally highly knowledgeable about the NEC and the trade that they have chosen.

You would be more than welcome to register and post a response keeping in mind direct sales pitches are not allowed.


Bob Badger (AKA 'iwire')
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LarryFine said:
peter said:
. . . the many thousands of sledge hammer blows needed to drive the #$&@ in.
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Pete, you should invest in a rotary hammer and a rod driver.
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Larry is spot-on with this advice. I was blown away at how much faster it was to drive ground rods with this tool. The rotary hammer is also very useful for boring nice holes in foundations to run conduit.

The tool and the bits are expensive, but I sure have no regrets about investing in them.
 
Mine is a 1/2" .
Inre the article. Back when I was a very young child I held the belief that anything actually printed out in black & white was the absolute truth. However, at some point prior to my freshman year of high school, I realized that most everything written is no more that an opinion or an outright falsehood. I also realized that some of my teachers were not always correct in what they were teaching.

Bottom line is people have to do a little thinking and/or research and come to their own conclusions.

If our educational system would teach us to read and write and (just as importantly) how to think for ourselves, we would all be a lot better off.
 
Jeff,
I do have a Bosch Bulldog roto-hammer. It makes drilling in concrete as easy as drilling holes in wood. [For drilling steel, I prefer the DeWalt pilot point bits.] However, the 5/8" dia. ground rod does not fit easily in the 1/2" chuck of the Bulldog.
Therefore I have resorted to using a modified version of my .50 caliber machine gun. I use a specially modified .50 caliber, 5/8" diameter barrell and a lot of blank cartridges. The ultimate "Powder Activated Tool" [PAT]. Want to make a straight run of 1/2" EMT through a series of joists? One round of the .50 will pave the way. Easy to fish and pull Romex at the same time. Just tie the wire to the back of the bullet and fire.
~Peter
 
dlhoule said:
Inre the article. Back when I was a very young child I held the belief that anything actually printed out in black & white was the absolute truth. However, at some point prior to my freshman year of high school, I realized that most everything written is no more that an opinion or an outright falsehood.
Click to expand...

I think that is a little unfair, but it is not far from the truth in many cases. Look at the obvious political bias in almost all the news media these days if you don't believe it. The thing is, the bias was always there, at least in the print media, but there was no attempt to claim objectivity like there is these days. The print media always had a slant, and they made no bones about it.

TV made an attempt to present an unbiased news reporting with clear delineation between news and comment. It was popular, so much of the print media got on the bandwagon, but never really changed what they did, they just claimed objectivity. I think this was in response to the ad money shifting from print to TV news. I don't think it had anything to do with people preferring the TV news so much as it was new and easier to get your news this way.

Somewhere along the line TV news became entertainment and it gradually lost any sense of objectivity as well.

The saddest thing to see has been the continued degrading of articles presented in what used to be scholarly and scientific journals. It used to be they were dry and boring, but you could generally trust what was written in them. These days they seem to be full of the latest PC nonsense, unsupported theory, and wild conjecture, all presented as unequivocal fact.

Look at what has happened to technical journals over the last 15 years. Used to be you could find good solid product information that was pretty objective. Now you get regurgitated press releases from the manufacturers with virtually no independent fact checking at all. In some cases the manufacturers have directly or indirectly purchased the magazines and actually have editorial control over what is printed.

Is it no wonder that it is so difficult to believe what is printed these days?
 
I read the article and was not impressed. I don't see a ground rod being a little smaller than 5/8" as being such a big deal. Also, since the accuracy is not stated, it only has to be with in 1/16". If we wanted to be "exactly" 5/8" then a tolerance would be required such as +/- 1/64"
Pehaps the author is concerned as with a CEE ground rods are not required.
I belive I met the author at the annual meeting for the 2005 NEC. He was on the same issue.
 
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