Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
Can you describe the procedure and impact of having to remove a poured conduit seal.
Procedure and impact of having to remove a poured conduit seal.
- Thread starter Natfuelbilll
- Start date
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det_wireman
Member
- Location
- Detroit, Michigan
Much care and patients are required. If you are in a hurry ? forget about it. I have used a small screw driver and/or chisel and very slowly chip away the filler. A shop vacuum may be handy to suck out chips and dust so you can see. If you are really careful and very lucky you won?t damage the wires. I do not know of any special tools or techniques.
When I did it the enviorment was not a hazardous one.
When I did it the enviorment was not a hazardous one.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
That would be extremely lucky.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If you are not trying to save the conductors, I just cut the conduit on one side of the seal and spin it off the other conduit. It would be replaced with a short nipple, UNY and a new seal.
weressl
Esteemed Member
We have used a nut-splitter on it and it worked well. (It is similar to a tube cutter but instead of a par of wheels it has a pair of blades that splits the cast fittng apart. It is driven by a hydraulic ram, like your compresson lugs.) We also used foam-in before poring the chicko seal instead of the damming fibers. It accomplishes a better seal and no possibility of draining past the dam. Just make sire you stick the nozzle down deep enough since the foam will expand both downward as well as upward and you want to make sure there is enough seal thickness on top to withstand the explosion pressure.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
What foam is listed for that application?...it sure would make the job of packing the seals easier.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
does the damming material even need to be a listed product? i never used anything other than the chico fiber and that seemed to work alright. great stuff foam would be better but just a little squirt
Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
Are you giving weressl a rope....
weressl
Esteemed Member
I am not aware if the foam is listed for the application. You can certainly install chico fiber on top of it if you're concerned about listing compliance, even though the foam would provide you with a superior blocking capability compared to the fiber.:smile:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The product is only tested and listed when installed per the instructions. The only packing material that is permitted is that specified in the instructions.
How does the foam provide the required separation between the conductors?
How does the foam provide the required separation between the conductors?
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I bet that foam would be difficult to deal with during replacement wiring, especially if it got down in the conduit a ways.
weressl
Esteemed Member
You may have failed to notice that I wrote to install the fiber dam on top of the foam if you're concerned with compliance. Are you interested following the letter of the law or with making the best installation under the circumstances that one can and making up for potential errors during installation?
I am not here to argue, I am just pointing out an installation trick that can overcome shortcomings both of the product design itself and the installation method.
weressl
Esteemed Member
The foam is far easier problem than the the chocko cement.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
Most old seals I have opened were never poured anywayfrom my experience.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
First I don't really understand how you are installing the foam and the fiber packing as still getting the chico around the wires. The chico must be around each individual conductor in a way so that any explosion on one side of the seal is not transmitted down the conduit on the other side of the seal.
There is no way of knowing if you method really does prevent the hot gases from getting out as your method has never been tested. How do you know that it is really works.
weressl
Esteemed Member
The foam goes in first, then the fiber - if you wish - then you pore the Chico cement.
A more costly way is:
ChicoSpeedSealTM Compound is a revolutionary material:
- installs a reliable seal in five minutes - every time
- hardens to a dense, strong mass that is suitable for Class I, Division 1, Groups C & D and Class II, Division 1, Groups E, F & G hazardous applications.
- UL and cUL Listed for use with 1⁄2to 2Copper Crouse-Hinds sealing fittings only.
- packaged in a 2 oz. or 6 oz. pre-measured cartridge, eliminating the need for measuring before mixing.
- packaged with a screw-on nozzle for accurate dispensing.
- expands four times its original size in the sealing fitting, eliminating the
need to separate the individual conductors with Chico X fiber.
- Chico X fiber dams are not required in horizontal applications, reducing installation times.
- completely hardens in 20 minutes, simplifying use for OEMs.- suitable for cold temperature environments without the costly need to
build a temporary shelter around sealing fittings. All ice crystals must be removed from inside the conduit seal before dispensing Chico SpeedSeal compound. The Chico SpeedSeal compound should be kept above 10?C (50?F) prior to mixing. The sealing fitting must be kept at or above 4?C
(40?F) during the 4 to 10 minute expansion/gel time of the compound.
- one year shelf-life.
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- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
So the foam is back in the end of the seal where you would normally place the fiber? How do you get the foam to separate the conductors so that there will be chico between each conductor?
I have seen the CH product but have not tried it. I think the chico itself also has a shelf life but am not sure.
weressl
Esteemed Member
Foam, Chico fiber, Chico cement.
The Chico cement does not have an expiration date but the SpeedSeal does as it is premixed. The SpeedSeal does NOT require separation of conductors, it flows into the interstices of the conductors. The perfectly mixed Chico cement also does that, but they(C-H) have no control over that so they make allowance for it. I always wondered how it can really be acomplished when you have ex. 25 #14 control wires.
There's a pretty good reason that the fill for Seal-offs went from 40% to only 25%. If you are a member of a "packing party" it helps to have some custom tools. Plastic picnic knives, and other plastics that will have a "memory" after you heat them and give them some custom bends. Chop sticks work well. Pack from back to front. Watch what temperatures are when pouring (magnetic block heaters and insulation wrap in cooler temperatures)
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Crouse says that Chico A does have a shelf life in this document.
The only thing is that I don't recall seeing a date of manufacture on the containers.
As far as the 25#14s, what size seal is it in? As another poster said, standard seals are only rated for wire fill of 25%, not 40% like the raceway. There are over sized seals available that are listed for a 40% fill. This happened because when the seals were originally listed, the code had two wire fills. A 25% fill for new work and a 40% fill for rework. It was assumed that seals were only used in new work. When the code was changed to permit a 40% fill for new work, no one thought about the seals. A few code cycles ago this error was caught and corrected.
As I recall you use a lot of tray cable in your installations. Is it of the type that requires the outer jacket removed so that the chico can seal around the individual conductors? That sounds like it would be a difficult type of installation.
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