Production/Lab (Occupancy H-3)

[maghazadeh]

I am working on a project to relocate an existing business to a new location.
THis business deals with storage and dispensing Gases/liquid gases.
They will have Exterior flammable gas cylinder storage bunker locations to store.
ACETYLENE
ETHANE
PROPANE
HYDROGEN
METHANE
PROPYLENE

Question #1) How would you classify the bunker area and surrounding area?

There will be 4 tanks outside next to exterior concrete wall which 3 of 4 tanks are vertival storage tanks.
Tank #1: 141 gal. (CC2) Refrigerated Liquid Carbon Dioxide.
Tank #2: 6K gal. vertical (AR) Liquid Argon.
Tank #3: 6K gal. vertical (O2) Liquid Oxygen.
Tank #4: 11K gal. vertical (N2) Liquid Nitrogen

Question #2) What would you classify the tank area and surrounding?

The 4 tanks as mentioned above will have piping run into the building in the area called Production/Lab (classified as H-3 Occupancy by Architect). There will be 4 different area for each gases where they will transfer the gas through pipes into smaller cylinders. I call that dispensing, so,

Question #3) What would you classify the production/lab area and surrounding?

The other day I went to their existing facility for a walk through and they have a similar set up as will be in the new location, however all existing electrical equipments, enclosures, and so on
are N-3R around the tanks out side, and N-1 inside of bldg.
There was a 800A 277/480V main service with N-3R and a 225A step down transformer with N-3R within 20 ft from the first tank.
Outside there are pump motors, start/stop, Em. shutoff sw, control panels for each tank, all with N-3R enclosures.

Inside the bldg. they hunged some 400W M.H. high bay fixtures with open reflector(standard warehouse type) for lighting. also there are start/stop, emergency shutoff switch, control panel, and a pump motor for each type of gas inside of bldg. all N-1 enclosures.

I did not see any explosion proof enclosures of any kind, so please post your opinions here and tell me what you think. so do you think there is no need for any explosion proof at all?

Your help is much appreciated in advance.
I will try to attach pictures from existing location if I can.

 

[maghazadeh]

Production/Lab (Occupancy H-3)

Here please find some pictures taken from existing facility.
Thanks

 

[rbalex]

1.) For storage in sealed containers only – unclassified.

2.) None of the gasses mentioned are flammable. If they are the only “source” under consideration, then the location is unclassified. Note oxygen may enhance other gasses’ flammability, but it isn’t flammable itself.

3.) There are too many variables to consider. (Even with the photos) Without a detailed description of the processes this is virtually impossible to give a definitive answer. Personally, I’d want the full P&IDs to even begin. I’d need to know the material streams, pressures, flow rates, ventilation, valve locations and their functions, possible relief systems, potential wall openings, etc.

That said, if you don’t already have a copy of NFPA 497, get one. Study the text thoroughly – don’t attempt to determine area classification from the diagrams alone; they aren't enough. You may find a few surprises.

 

[chris kennedy]

Personally, I?d want the full P&IDs to even begin.

What is P&ID?

 

[rbalex]

What is P&ID?

Most commonly, Piping & Instrumentation Diagram. Ocassionally, Process and Instrumentation Diagram.

 

[chris kennedy]

Thank you.

 

[bobgorno]

business deals with storage and dispensing Gases/liquid gases

Make sure you also review the requirements of other governing codes and standards. They will likely go beyond the Electrical Area Classification recommendations and are considered fire protection requirements. Most jurisdictions will require compliance with International Fire Code (IFC). Also review NFPA 55 for cylinders, especially flammables, and 53, especially if you have indoor oxygen distribution. Watch for required separation distances between O2 and flammables. Many architects will not be well versed in this. You may need to involve a Fire Protection Engineeer.

 

[rbalex]

Normally, I wouldn?t comment on bobgorno?s post since I agree with it; especially, about getting a fire protection engineer involved. I would point out that none of the standards mentioned deals directly with electrical area classification and they are beyond the scope of an electrical contractor with respect to the OP.