Project Hand-off

[fridaymean]

What is your process for handing a job off from estimation to project management to field supervision / foreman.

How much planning goes in before the job get started?

The company I currently work for is trying to develop a process for this. We have started having a job meeting with estimating, PM, super, and job foreman to go over most details of the job and develop a plan.

 

[bigjohn67]

Project Hand off

Project Hand off

It is better to develop a chain of command. I would not recommend having a round table discussion with everyone. Respect for ones position is lost.
We do it like this

Estimator meets with PM after the job is awarded
Estimator,owner and PM meet to decide who will run the job
The Forman is then brought in for a meeting with the PM
Job starts with Forman fully in charge of on site installation.
PM handles the business end of the job while the Forman handles the job site.
Change orders follow Forman>PM>back to the estimator >PM for submission.

I fully believe in the chain of command and systems, without it, respect is lost.

 

[macmikeman]

It is better to develop a chain of command. I would not recommend having a round table discussion with everyone. Respect for ones position is lost.
We do it like this

Estimator meets with PM after the job is awarded
Estimator,owner and PM meet to decide who will run the job
The Forman is then brought in for a meeting with the PM
Job starts with Forman fully in charge of on site installation.
PM handles the business end of the job while the Forman handles the job site.
Change orders follow Forman>PM>back to the estimator >PM for submission.

I fully believe in the chain of command and systems, without it, respect is lost.

As company owner I would rather you guys would learn to loose a bit of that respect (pride) than me loose money on your many layers of command holding important things like gettin er done up.......

 

[fridaymean]

Macmikeman, as a business owner, how would you prefer things to oporate then?

 

[satcom]

I have to agree with Mac, a Flat operation is more efficent, the old chain methods are the same companies closing their doors. In a flat operation, the electrician can consult with the engineer on the job and then the agreed result is sent to everyone on board, simple fast and a win win for everyone.

 

[macmikeman]

Macmikeman, as a business owner, how would you prefer things to oporate then?

I prefer the maximum profit model, at what ever size company I happen to run at the time. No barriers to communications is key to that, top man to broom pusher.

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

It is better to develop a chain of command. I would not recommend having a round table discussion with everyone. Respect for ones position is lost.
We do it like this

Estimator meets with PM after the job is awarded
Estimator,owner and PM meet to decide who will run the job
The Forman is then brought in for a meeting with the PM
Job starts with Forman fully in charge of on site installation.
PM handles the business end of the job while the Forman handles the job site.
Change orders follow Forman>PM>back to the estimator >PM for submission.

I fully believe in the chain of command and systems, without it, respect is lost.

I don't agree with the chain of command / respect aspect, but other than that, this is a pretty good process listed here.

The importance of RESPECT is too easy to become the importance of EGO.

 

[tyha]

I dont beleive its a respect issue. I fully agree that the foreman should stay connected to the PM and possibly the owner but my foreman and estimators dont even speak the same language. My estimator looks at our projects in different ways than our formen that have been running projects in the field for 20 years. People can say whatever they want but the system we have in place is very effective and profitable. The estimator sometimes works with the PM but generally passes it off to him and then the PM and foreman meet with the owner or usually GC or CM.

 

[satcom]

I dont beleive its a respect issue. I fully agree that the foreman should stay connected to the PM and possibly the owner but my foreman and estimators dont even speak the same language. My estimator looks at our projects in different ways than our formen that have been running projects in the field for 20 years. People can say whatever they want but the system we have in place is very effective and profitable. The estimator sometimes works with the PM but generally passes it off to him and then the PM and foreman meet with the owner or usually GC or CM.

In my opinion, the PM is the most usless rung in the ladder, they evolved as a way to push projects thru, A well seasoned forman, can usually handle everything if he has a good set of prints and a contact number for the engineer, the estimator is finished the day the project is sold. I see in the past year since a lot of PM's have been removed from the process, the projects moved better.

 

[tyha]

In my opinion, the PM is the most usless rung in the ladder, they evolved as a way to push projects thru, A well seasoned forman, can usually handle everything if he has a good set of prints and a contact number for the engineer, the estimator is finished the day the project is sold. I see in the past year since a lot of PM's have been removed from the process, the projects moved better.

maybe on the type and scope of projects your doing but there is no one man that could handle the size projects Im refering to being a foreman and running the crew, putting out fires and coordinating work between different trades and our subs in the field and be able to handle the outside coordination between pay apps, cost control, vendor selection and cooordination and continued sales. Its just not possible. I ask a great deal of all my employees and there is not one man that could handle both jobs.

 

[satcom]

maybe on the type and scope of projects your doing but there is no one man that could handle the size projects Im refering to being a foreman and running the crew, putting out fires and coordinating work between different trades and our subs in the field and be able to handle the outside coordination between pay apps, cost control, vendor selection and cooordination and continued sales. Its just not possible. I ask a great deal of all my employees and there is not one man that could handle both jobs.

You just listed all the tasks the GC and his staff have, send the PM home and watch how nice the project moves.

 

[tyha]

You just listed all the tasks the GC and his staff have, send the PM home and watch how nice the project moves.

Your ridiculous. I really hope your not serious. You expect me to allow the GC to be responsible for my companys sales, budget, vendor management and billing? That doesnt even make sense when I type it.

 

[satcom]

Your ridiculous. I really hope your not serious. You expect me to allow the GC to be responsible for my companys sales, budget, vendor management and billing? That doesnt even make sense when I type it.

Why would a GC or PM be responsible for your budget?

 

[tyha]

your not even making any sense. The PM from MY company is responsible for OUR project budget. I would not leave that up to the GC or our foreman. The foremans position mainly requires him to stay focused on the crew and progress in the field amongst other things. If the projects were smaller then maybe we would entertain the idea of the foreman taking control but our foreman would never be in charge of billing and vendor managment.

 

[satcom]

your not even making any sense. The PM from MY company is responsible for OUR project budget. I would not leave that up to the GC or our foreman. The foremans position mainly requires him to stay focused on the crew and progress in the field amongst other things. If the projects were smaller then maybe we would entertain the idea of the foreman taking control but our foreman would never be in charge of billing and vendor managment.

I am sorry I did not realize you were a GC, I thought you were an Electrical Contractor, and was wondering why you had a PM on staff.

 

[macmikeman]

I am sorry I did not realize you were a GC, I thought you were an Electrical Contractor, and was wondering why you had a PM on staff.

Satcom, I had a PM on staff when I did large projects, it makes great sence. However any and every single employee could directly communicate any questions or concerns to any other employee at any time, title or not. The rigid chain of command part of earlier posts is what I do not necessarily agree with. I did a project in the millions that included turn key software creation, electronic hardware system integration, electrical work, conduit and wire pulling and terminations. Try having an electrical forman run all that and keep the finance numbers on it also. That won't work. To me, every single person on the job or in the company was a key person, nobody outranked anybody, except for actual stock holders in the company.

 

[codewarrior321]

I agree with TYHA, let the pm take care of business and let the forman take care of the job at hand. When you have specialize chain of command the project will most times get done in an efficient manner. If you are bidding tight and you do not run the job efficiently you loose money, if you do not do the paper work right you loose money and if you do not bill on time,You will not get paid on time and your cash flow suffers. It is like a little crack in the mirror it starts small and by the time you realize you need a new one. Projects are monsters in the fact once they start time does not. A Plus is that every employees opinion should be valued as any from the top.