Project Management Software

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Energy-Miser

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Maryland
Hi,
I am looking to buy a project management software that will help me keep everything in one place such as proposals, material purchases, scheduling, change order, billing and job costing. I would prefer it to be a multi-user software. Recently been approached by a rep from Sage, talking about their software called "Master Builder". Does anyone have any experience with this one? What software do most ECs use? Does any one product stand out, considering price, ease of use, etc.? Your input is greatly appreciated. BTW, currently I am using something called Base Camp, and a patchwork of home made Excel files, etc., and do my billing on Quick Book. Very time consuming. Thanks again, e/m.
 
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If you want to use a task scheduling application as the backbone of your enterprise, the gold standard has always been Project Primavera, but may be overkill for a small contractor shop.

MS Project never supported manpower or scheduling with payroll directly. Even when forced thru VBA programming to merge tables with accounting databases, it was never secure enough for enterprise payrolls.
 
I have tried quite a few but until recently never found one that fit my needs, or did not take all my time doing repetitive data entry.

Share Point Services-
It came with Windows Server 2003 and it was just something I stumbled across completely by accident.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/sharepoint/bb848085.aspx

I create a tab of each job, then on each tab a list for fixtures, gear, change orders, RFIs, ASIs, job contacts, and schedule. There is also a tab for shop use and material where I have a list for POs and Equipment rental.

It does take time to set up but once it is done, they system is snap to use.
 
What do you use for estimating software?
I know that Accubid, ConEst and some others have PM software that links with their estimating software.

I have never used or demoed the PM software part, but it may be worth looking into. The demos are free if you contact them.
 
tkb said:
What do you use for estimating software?
I know that Accubid, ConEst and some others have PM software that links with their estimating software.

I have never used or demoed the PM software part, but it may be worth looking into. The demos are free if you contact them.
We are small, four electricians and a couple of helpers, so I just do paper and pencil estimating. But, even with our size, I have a definite need for a PM software to tie everything together. I have heard from many vendors, but of course they spin toward selling their particular products, that's why I thought I ask the forum for unbiased eval. Thanks, e/m
 
ramsy said:
If you want to use a task scheduling application as the backbone of your enterprise, the gold standard has always been Project Primavera, but may be overkill for a small contractor shop.

MS Project never supported manpower or scheduling with payroll directly. Even when forced thru VBA programming to merge tables with accounting databases, it was never secure enough for enterprise payrolls.
Do you use Primavera? How big is your company? I have four electricians and two helpers currently. Anyone else have experience with the Primavera, please give feedback. Thanks, e/m
 
ITO said:
I have tried quite a few but until recently never found one that fit my needs, or did not take all my time doing repetitive data entry.

Share Point Services-
It came with Windows Server 2003 and it was just something I stumbled across completely by accident.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/sharepoint/bb848085.aspx

I create a tab of each job, then on each tab a list for fixtures, gear, change orders, RFIs, ASIs, job contacts, and schedule. There is also a tab for shop use and material where I have a list for POs and Equipment rental.

It does take time to set up but once it is done, they system is snap to use.
Thanks ITO. Can I PM you on this for more details? e/m
 
Energy-Miser said:
Do you use Primavera? How big is your company? I have four electricians and two helpers currently.

My experience with Primavera was limited to integration support, as an MS Project customer support technician.

Bid presentation is one of the few reasons for using a Project application with a 7-man shop. The task bar graphs & color charts can look very cool on a plotter. I'd be surprised if MS Share Point Services can do this.

Perhaps outsourcing the project charts with your engineering plans, or renting computer time & plotter at Kinko's, etc., would be more cost effective that ownership of system, equipment, and training-time investments.

If you must buy it. Primavera's contractor can be found below:
http://www.primavera.com/purchase/contractor.asp
 
With all due respect, Primavera is a pain in the arse. It?s something PMs fresh out college/PM school use to make my life hell, and the learning curve and data entry time makes it not really useful for me.

I do own a copy and I have used it, but only because I was contractually obligated to produce a schedule for a job one time.

Sure a GC can make good use out of it, but so much of our work is tied to other trades that its hard to plan and schedule for everything. What I do is take the schedule from the GC and do a reality check review?things like add days for rough-in before the sheet rock goes up. Then I document and write lots of letters for every mistake or every time they miss one of their dates, and impacts my time. This does not really do anything other than protect me for LDs or back charges but those two alone are a lot.

Energy-Miser, I take it you are a small shop. If that is case then start building your systems in Excel to get a feel for what you need and works, as compared to what you don?t and doesn?t. Run with that until you have a good feel for it then start looking at other folks software; chances are you will see your system for your size is better than most PM software out there.
 
From a technical support standpoint, spreadsheets are never a waist of time.

Any software you later settle on can read spreadsheet data (exported to csv, or directly linked), including accounting, tax, presentation, or project scheduling tools for fancy presentation plots.

The best project tool may be of little value if jobs are too small to need critical-path analysis, or if users don't specifically apply lead, slip, or resource leveling. The critical functions for a project are not automatically included, you must know what you're doing. Futher, the tutorials for these applications may help, but don't teach you how to run your business.

After supporting several hundred clients with MS project, none of them ever mentioned generating a notification letter for task slip or project crashes. That is a brilliant idea, which may have only come from experienced management.

Perhaps the most expensive misconception made is faith in technology investments, expected to substitute for fairly compensating talent, or replace the nurturing of mature experience.
 
ITO said:
With all due respect, Primavera is a pain in the arse. It?s something PMs fresh out college/PM school use to make my life hell, and the learning curve and data entry time makes it not really useful for me.

I do own a copy and I have used it, but only because I was contractually obligated to produce a schedule for a job one time.

Sure a GC can make good use out of it, but so much of our work is tied to other trades that its hard to plan and schedule for everything. What I do is take the schedule from the GC and do a reality check review?things like add days for rough-in before the sheet rock goes up. Then I document and write lots of letters for every mistake or every time they miss one of their dates, and impacts my time. This does not really do anything other than protect me for LDs or back charges but those two alone are a lot.

Energy-Miser, I take it you are a small shop. If that is case then start building your systems in Excel to get a feel for what you need and works, as compared to what you don?t and doesn?t. Run with that until you have a good feel for it then start looking at other folks software; chances are you will see your system for your size is better than most PM software out there.
Yes, I do use excell, and I am pretty good with it too. I used it for determining the cost of our jobs for example and it works very well. The only problem is that we end up with a lot of fragmentation, and data entry in multiple files, etc. which is of course time consuming. I agree that so much is tied with other trades, that nothing is ever clear cut and things always take longer than usual. Not to change the subject too much, but when you bill the GC for having delayed you, do they normally pay without hassle?
 
Rarely do they pay with or without hassle for delay, the delay letters are more for protection against liquidated damages and other back charges. You know the old saying, "Send your bill first".

The letters are also a nice defense for when the GC starts threatening you with delay and impact because you don't have the GC mandated 100-Electrician crew they claim every other EC used on their past jobs.

As for the data entry issues you mentioned... ALL PM software has that same issue.
 
Energy-Miser said:
Yes, I do use excell.. The only problem is that we end up with a lot of fragmentation, and data entry in multiple files, etc. which is of course time consuming.

I started using a spreadsheet to balance my checkbook in 1991; never needed Quicken or Quick Books. I learned to record simple macros first, then eventually wrote one to automatically export each transaction record to a separate text file. That kept my transactions in one place or file, and allowed all the fancy record searching & sorting imaginable.

Have you tried using more than one workbook in the same file (tabs on bottom of screen)? I believe Excel lets you consolidate several spreadsheets into one file by copying them to different workbooks?

You can also use more space in each workbook, if you scroll around a bit. I've made a view menu using macro's. This shows me all the different tables without scrolling much.
 
ITO said:
Rarely do they pay with or without hassle for delay, the delay letters are more for protection against liquidated damages and other back charges. You know the old saying, "Send your bill first".

The letters are also a nice defense for when the GC starts threatening you with delay and impact because you don't have the GC mandated 100-Electrician crew they claim every other EC used on their past jobs.

As for the data entry issues you mentioned... ALL PM software has that same issue.
Thanks yes, did not think of that. So much of this game is played in the defense, that it takes all the fun out of what you really went into business for in the first place. But you got to do what you got to do to survive. I even saw some posts recommending taking pictures of the job site at different stages, and date stamping them to be of use in future ligtigation or threats there of. Thanks, e/m
 
ramsy said:
I started using a spreadsheet ... ...without scrolling much.
I have used multiple tabs for some things. I know you can use formulas in cells in one tab, referring to cells in another tab, and that can be very useful too. Do you find maintaining Excel sheets and formulas troublesome? I have not used macros, but from what you have described, it seems like they can be very useful, I will have to look into them. If they work well for me, then not only will I have a good system in place, but also save much money in avoided cost of software. Thanks for your help, e/m.
 
ramsy said:
From a technical support standpoint, spreadsheets are never a waist of time. ...

After supporting several hundred clients with MS project, none of them ever mentioned generating a notification letter for task slip or project crashes. That is a brilliant idea, which may have only come from experienced management.
....
ramsy,
thanks again for your response. I could not be clear on what you said about the MS Project. Have you used it yourself, or have work with clients who have used it? Also, if you have used it yourselt, how did you like it? Being a MS product, I imagine it would have a price advantage over other software that are out there. Thanks, e/m.
 
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