Proposal for 2011 NEC

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jerryb

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The adoption of the 2011 NEC is a long ways off but we all need to start early to have any hope of getting something changed. I have been told many times that a single person does not have the clout to get a change made but if backed by an organization, a city or even a union then there is enough interest to get it considered. I am offering this change with the idea of having other understand my reasoning and willing to help push this through (if you agree with me).

a. I am proposing a change to Article 220.43(b) regarding the calculating of the electrical load for light track installations.

b. My proposal would be to eliminate or reduce the minimum required load applied to a light track. The present code requirement calls for a load of 150 watts per 2 foot of track or the actual connect load applied to that track, which ever is greater.

c. This load requirement for track light originated in the 1993 or 1996 NEC and at that time there were no adopted energy codes dealing with energy efficient lighting or reduced lighting watts. Since that time codes have been adopted to reduce lighting. Working with today?s building codes and energy codes we are forced to provide transformer capacity and services for a lighting load that cannot existing within the space (unless illegally installed by a third party).

d. This requirement of the NEC was intended to makes sure that a tenant or building owner would have ample capacity if additional track lighting were installed. But in today?s retail design the tenant or owner pays the engineer to calculate the acceptable lighting load and to design a space with as much flexibility in the lighting as possible. There is no common sense in installing 15,000 watts of lighting and providing 50,000 of capacity. Energy codes will not allow that kind of increase.

e. We need to bring the National Electrical Code in line with the Energy codes and not force the build owner to pay for capacity that will never be used. Maybe the solution is to have the NEC require a minimum amount to capacity as allowed by the energy code.

Thank you for the opportunity for me to present this idea to this form.
 
Since the 2008 is cast in stone maybe we could change the heading of this section to Proposals for the 2011 NEC.:cool:
 
I have been told many times that a single person does not have the clout to get a change made but if backed by an organization, a city or even a union then there is enough interest to get it considered. I am offering this change with the idea of having other understand my reasoning and willing to help push this through (if you agree with me).
That is not true. I have a few proposals that were not backed by any organization that made it into the code.
Don
 
iwire said:
Don't we make money supplying this legally required capacity?
Is it in the NEC's purpose to make electrical contractors money? :)

infinity said:
Since the 2008 is cast in stone maybe we could change the heading of this section to Proposals for the 2011 NEC.:cool:
I'd hold off until we can at least purchase a copy of the 2008 in the flesh. ;)

eric stromberg said:
I also have a couple proposals that made it that were not backed by anyone else.
Me too. I should also mention that I discovered that the one I took most pride in actually was proposed by you in the 2005 cycle, to change the name of the electrode in 250.54 to something other than "supplementary". Thanks for taking the wind out of my sails, Eric. :D
 
georgestolz said:
Is it in the NEC's purpose to make electrical contractors money? :)

Of course not, but that is what it does along with the manufacturers.

My real point was trying to see if jerryb had considered he is asking support from a group of people that have a finical stake in the prosed change.

I also don't think it's to much for the NEC to limit a 20 amp circuit to 32' of track. (25' if continuously loaded)
 
georgestolz said:
Me too. I should also mention that I discovered that the one I took most pride in actually was proposed by you in the 2005 cycle, to change the name of the electrode in 250.54 to something other than "supplementary". Thanks for taking the wind out of my sails, Eric. :D


Yeah, but mine was rejected :mad: and yours was accepted :smile:
Maybe after they reject a proposal for a few cycles they start warming up to the idea. :rolleyes:
 
jerryb said:
I have been told many times that a single person does not have the clout to get a change made but if backed by an organization, a city or even a union then there is enough interest to get it considered.
Not true at all. There are many code changes made by a person with no outside support, including myself. Examples
2002 NEC. An interior decorator from Montana wanted to install plug mold under the bottom of the upper kitchen cabinets, but this would put the height at 20" instead of the required 18" She made the proposal to change to 20" and it was accepted.
2005 NEC. The rooftop receptacle for a swamp cooler does not have to be GFCI protected, based on the proposal from a installer. Well its not a HVAC unit anyway, but his proposal was still accepted.
Your propsal does have some merit, as energy codes limit the connected lighting load. I would suggest you research the codes in every state to see if energy codes do limit track lighting, and also provide some industry support, perhaps from the IESNA.
 
Mis-directed post

Mis-directed post

I think everone has missed the intent of my Post. I was NOT trying to create a discussing on whether a code change was possible from an individual. I was trying to point out a section of the NEC that is no longer a valid requirement due to other regulations outside the NEC. I was hoping to generate responses that would tell me that I was off base and forget it. Or maybe there are others that agree with me and this should become a legitimate issue for the next version of the NEC. As stated before, the present requirement by the NEC, for electrical loading on track, is costing the owners additional money.

I thought that was the purpose of this section of the forum.
"Make the NEC better through change".
 
Make the proposal, but you would do better with the endorsement of some industry groups.
I suspect the CMPs would reject this proposal, unless you can demonstrate nation wide use of energy codes that don't allow a higher connected load.
 
Jerry, if you look at the 2005 ROP there were similiar proposals regarding the IECC and ASHRAE that were rejected. I would start there, read the ROP and see what CMP 2 wants for a substantiation.
 
Overloading "control"

Overloading "control"

Jerry,

I guess you are pointing out another half ***** attempt by the NEC to "control" overloading.

Collorary: only fools will break a foolproof system.

Edited to remove offensive word.
 
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Jerry, I think your proposal has merit. You should repost your proposal in the form dictated in Bob Alexander's sticky so that we can see the actual language you'd propose. If you do not offer language to the CMP, they will flatly reject it based on that.
 
Jerry, Ryan is really a code geek, take his advice. I had a proposal for the 2005 NEC in section 250.118 that was rejected, I talked to a CMP member last week and he explained what the objections were, I'll resubmitt in 2011. You really have two chances, once on the proposal and then can resubmit on comment.
Do your home work and get the language correct, get a copy of previous ROPs and ROCs and see how it should be done.
 
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