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Public input cites this fourm

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Don,

I tried to open the page using the provided link but it didn't work. Is it working on your end?
 
peter d said:
Now if only they would consider some of the discussion about AFCI's. :thumbsup:
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First many threads on that discussion develop into 100 to 400 posts on the topic - the CMP will not read very many of them and will stick to the info the manufacturers have them sold on.
 
kwired said:
First many threads on that discussion develop into 100 to 400 posts on the topic - the CMP will not read very many of them and will stick to the info the manufacturers have them sold on.
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It's just wishful thinking on my part. I have no illusions that the AFCI is going away any time soon.
 
kwired said:
First many threads on that discussion develop into 100 to 400 posts on the topic - the CMP will not read very many of them and will stick to the info the manufacturers have them sold on.
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Have to wonder if they read the forum thread at all... :?

Here's the committee statement - resolution:
There was inadequate technical substantiation to eliminate the equipment grounding conductor for the equipment and appliance cords included in this section. The current text in this section is clear and unambiguous. The language found in 406.4 (inclusive) is the responsibility of CMP-9, the language found in 210.8 is the responsibility of CMP-2.
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Smart $ said:
Have to wonder if they read the forum thread at all... :?

Here's the committee statement - resolution:
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The way I read the statement is that you can't plug any of the items listed in 250.114 into a receptacle that does not have an EGC. The fact that the code permits the use of a GFCI protected receptacle that does not have an EGC, has no effect on the rule in 250.114.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The way I read the statement is that you can't plug any of the items listed in 250.114 into a receptacle that does not have an EGC. The fact that the code permits the use of a GFCI protected receptacle that does not have an EGC, has no effect on the rule in 250.114.
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I realize that. My post was regarding the committee response, not the gist of the PI.

What they should actually do is compel manufacturers to make a listed accessory which can be inserted in the ground-prong receiver hole simply to prevent anyone from plugging in a 3-prong grounding plug. Doesn't completely prevent consumer modifications, but it'd be a step in the right direction... IMO.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The way I read the statement is that you can't plug any of the items listed in 250.114 into a receptacle that does not have an EGC. The fact that the code permits the use of a GFCI protected receptacle that does not have an EGC, has no effect on the rule in 250.114.
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So wait, (and you are correct by the looks of it), when an old home with 2 wire outlets is changed to GFCI, I can not legally plug in say a small mini fridge?
 
mbrooke said:
Thats just the daftest thing ever :lol: So why allow GFCIs to take the place of non-grounded receptacles?
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That has been that way for a pretty long time. GFCI protection still provide an overall safer installation then a two wire receptacle and having user install a cheater or cut off EGC pin of the cord, so I would put one in anyway.
 
kwired said:
That has been that way for a pretty long time. GFCI protection still provide an overall safer installation then a two wire receptacle and having user install a cheater or cut off EGC pin of the cord, so I would put one in anyway.
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But I think the code is somewhat off. IMO I think the intent of 250.114 is to force new installations to have an EGC rather then forbid people from plugging nearly everything into a GFCI in an ungrounded system. Otherwise I think code would not allow GFCIs on old ungrounded circuits to start with.
 
mbrooke said:
But I think the code is somewhat off. IMO I think the intent of 250.114 is to force new installations to have an EGC rather then forbid people from plugging nearly everything into a GFCI in an ungrounded system. Otherwise I think code would not allow GFCIs on old ungrounded circuits to start with.
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Would need to do some research, but it is possible that the section calling for grounding type receptacles for specific outlets goes back to the days when it was permitted to run non grounding receptacles and wiring methods and has never been changed/removed. Otherwise you have to run grounding type receptacles and an equipment grounding conductor for all new stuff and have had to for a long time now.
 
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