Public works bid splitting!

[flatlander]

He guys been a while.

I have a question regarding public works projects in California.
Can an Agency split a project into specialty contracts instead of one General contract?
In other words can a project to build a keosk/monument that involves , excavation, concrete, masonry , lighting, landscaping, irrigation, painting be split into several different bids. Some that will be low enough to circumvent performance bonds , certified payroll etc.

your reply's will be appreciated.

 

[gadfly56]

He guys been a while.

I have a question regarding public works projects in California.
Can an Agency split a project into specialty contracts instead of one General contract?
In other words can a project to build a keosk/monument that involves , excavation, concrete, masonry , lighting, landscaping, irrigation, painting be split into several different bids. Some that will be low enough to circumvent performance bonds , certified payroll etc.

your reply's will be appreciated.

I'm surprised a California agency would try this. In New Jersey it would be illegal. If the job is to erect a building, you can't let a contract to dig the hole, another to set the forms, another to pour the concrete, another to strike the forms, etc. because none of those activities creates a finished product within the intent of the law. The test is, can you walk away at the end of the "job" and leave the customer (the state, say) with a useful work product? Also it's pointless for most government entities. The threshold is only $2,000 although there is an exemption for municipalites of $14,187. That's if the town itself writes the check. You do work for the Butler Board of Education, it's $2,000. You do work for the Butler Department of Public Works, it's $2,000. If the town of Butler writes the check, it's $14,187. If Morris County writes the check, it's $2,000. If New Jersey DOT writes the check, it's $2,000. What you could possibly do for a NJ agency for less than $2,000 I can't imagine. Although the thresholds don't apply for maintenance contracts. But you have to be careful; make sure you have separate PO's for maintenance and repairs. If you have a $50 repair on a $25,000 maintenance contract, all of the bid labor on the maintenance contract is now subject to prevailing wage rates. If that repair happens on Dec 29 of a Jan-Dec contract, all the labor previously billed under the maintenance contract is subject to prevailing wage rates. And you'll get a $5,000 fine for not having paid the prevailing rate previously, even though it wasn't until the last minute repair was made that the contract was subject to prevailing wage rates :rant:. Does everyone else have as much fun as we do in NJ :roll:.

 

[petersonra]

Government agencys around here sometimes break up projects into manageable chunks that they essentially act as their own GC on.

It is practical and economical on smaller projects, but I have never seen anyone try and take on a larger project that way.

It is common though to have professional contracts (architects and engineers, for instance) be seperate from the actual construction.

I have seen well installation projects where the drilling and pump was a contract, the building was a seperate contract, the MCC and electrical was another, and the water dept acted as what amounts to a GC.

It is also not unusual for them to break up something into small enough chunks that it does not require approval from the city council. I think the mayor can sign off on $25G in Rockford, and so you see a lot of contracts just under the limit because it has to get approved by the city council if it is over that.

Sometimes the contracts get broken up into different budgets and even different budget years.

Some agencys also have contracts for services with companies that are bid out for the year, but there is no way to know how much the contract will end up being - things like snow plowing or salting.

 

[jusme123]

In NYS, if the state puts up a building, 4 or 5 separate contracts are put out to bid (with the same bid date): general construction, electrical, mechanical, and HVAC. They are each considered separate contracts, with the state engineers running the projects

 

[Fulthrotl]

He guys been a while.

I have a question regarding public works projects in California.
Can an Agency split a project into specialty contracts instead of one General contract?
In other words can a project to build a keosk/monument that involves , excavation, concrete, masonry , lighting, landscaping, irrigation, painting be split into several different bids. Some that will be low enough to circumvent performance bonds , certified payroll etc.

your reply's will be appreciated.

http://www.greenbookspecs.org

that's the contractual standard they use....

don't see why they can't define their scope of work for their project.
however most municipalities want a layer above the general contractor,
to limit them from doing really dumb stuff, and they don't get that
creative.

greenbook protects both sides from huge errors, and most cities
don't deviate much.... a few years ago, a calif city did a project
that required ground water treating, and they decided to try and
hang the A contractor out, by making the unit pricing not subject
to renegotiation... and they figured the contractor wouldn't even
recoup the cost of the jobsite groundwater treatment plant.

they didn't think there would be any water. they used a 10 year old
water survey... boy, were they smart.....

they paid .28 cents a gallon to treat water, expecting 200k gallons total.

when i left the project, they were at 37,000,000 and pumping 400k
a day.... and it wasn't negotiable, per their choice.

most cities don't want to manage their own projects.

 

[flatlander]

What I have read is that you cannot split jobs in order to avoid the bidding process. Since not all of the project is being bid I think there is an issue.

 

[flatlander]

What gets me about this project it in one hand it allows for my company to directly contract for.
On the other hand since this is a separate contract and no GC the EC is responsible for many more things then would be if a GC present.
This could make it actually more difficult for smaller companies such as us.

 

[Sierrasparky]

http://www.greenbookspecs.org

that's the contractual standard they use....

don't see why they can't define their scope of work for their project.
however most municipalities want a layer above the general contractor,
to limit them from doing really dumb stuff, and they don't get that
creative.

greenbook protects both sides from huge errors, and most cities
don't deviate much.... a few years ago, a calif city did a project
that required ground water treating, and they decided to try and
hang the A contractor out, by making the unit pricing not subject
to renegotiation... and they figured the contractor wouldn't even
recoup the cost of the jobsite groundwater treatment plant.

they didn't think there would be any water. they used a 10 year old
water survey... boy, were they smart.....

they paid .28 cents a gallon to treat water, expecting 200k gallons total.

when i left the project, they were at 37,000,000 and pumping 400k
a day.... and it wasn't negotiable, per their choice.

most cities don't want to manage their own projects.

I don't think the greenbook sets the regulations for this issue. I would think that would be the Govt. code I think .

 

[tyha]

Its absolutey legal. Ive been on a few in my time and none were small. I think the lowest was when i was an assitant PM we did 4 dorm buildings at a state university. Our contract was about 12 million. there were 3 others I think. mechanical, plumbing, brick/block. we were all "Multiprime Contractors" the state hired a construction management firm to act sort of as the GC but they had no more pull than us. They didnt direct us in any way. we worked directly for the state. There are 2 different kinds multiprime and single prime - which is what most people are used to with one GC gathering all the bids and putting in one number. I think they have stopped the multiprime method here as it was usually causing major problems and more money.

 

[Speshulk]

In NYS, if the state puts up a building, 4 or 5 separate contracts are put out to bid (with the same bid date): general construction, electrical, mechanical, and HVAC. They are each considered separate contracts, with the state engineers running the projects

The Wicks Law determines how public jobs are put out to bid in New York State. For the vast majority of the state, any public project with an estimated value of $500,000 + must be put out to bid by individual trades.

http://www.nybuildingtrades.com/Wicks_Law_Information.html