PUll Scenario

[mstrlucky74]

So have 2- 4” PVC conduits interior of bldg.. is RGS but only small portion) w/ 3#500 5kv cables in each going from service building gear on 2^nd floor to substation #1 on grade. Total point to point footage of run is 300’. So it’s 300’x3 cables x 2 runs= ~ 1800’ of total wire.

I assume the reels would be setup on grade at the substation as you would not get them on 2^nd floor of enclosed building. So tugger would be setup on 2^nd floor?
How would you setup your crew to do this pull? How many men on each end. Thinking total crew would be about 6 guys.
When I take what we have for labor per thousand for 1/C #500 I get about 140 hours total to pull these 2 sets. So if it was 6 men at 8 hours each that would be 48 hours per day so about 3 days to do the run. Now if the amount of men is different from 6 then obviously the duration of the pull changes.

Any thought on the # of men and how long to do this pull? Thanks.

 

[cdslotz]

So have 2- 4” PVC conduits interior of bldg.. is RGS but only small portion) w/ 3#500 5kv cables in each going from service building gear on 2^nd floor to substation #1 on grade. Total point to point footage of run is 300’. So it’s 300’x3 cables x 2 runs= ~ 1800’ of total wire.

I assume the reels would be setup on grade at the substation as you would not get them on 2^nd floor of enclosed building. So tugger would be setup on 2^nd floor?
How would you setup your crew to do this pull? How many men on each end. Thinking total crew would be about 6 guys.
When I take what we have for labor per thousand for 1/C #500 I get about 140 hours total to pull these 2 sets. So if it was 6 men at 8 hours each that would be 48 hours per day so about 3 days to do the run. Now if the amount of men is different from 6 then obviously the duration of the pull changes.

Any thought on the # of men and how long to do this pull? Thanks.

I would let them figure it out when I get the job.........why do you worry about all the different scenarios?

 

[rambojoe]

well the purchaser would look at it as 1800' but its still just (2) 300' runs. the main problem is estimating really depends on actually seeing what you have, not what it looks like on civil sheets (or what ever sheets those are). I also see a man hole on the side of a hill, which could change a lot. if there are no exterior walls, id certainly boom fork those rolls up to the second floor- use gravity when possible!!! it still should get done in one day... there wouldn't happen to be a huge pulling box on the first floor, would there?

 

[mstrlucky74]

well the purchaser would look at it as 1800' but its still just (2) 300' runs. the main problem is estimating really depends on actually seeing what you have, not what it looks like on civil sheets (or what ever sheets those are). I also see a man hole on the side of a hill, which could change a lot. if there are no exterior walls, id certainly boom fork those rolls up to the second floor- use gravity when possible!!! it still should get done in one day... there wouldn't happen to be a huge pulling box on the first floor, would there?

thank you. No it's not a pullbox.

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[cdslotz]

Look....I haven't checked your units, but you should learn to trust your units and if they seem too low or too high, consult someone in your shop.
If this pull is a major part of the overall scope of work, then brainstorming with your forman is warranted.
However, if this is just another pull in a project with a lot of feeders, you should be fine.
I have found that feeder pull labor is the easiest labor code to beat in the entire job. I really don't know why, but it's always been that way.
I think it comes down to having good people that have planned and considered the pull prior to routing of conduit and pull locations. By the time they actually do the pull, it's easy and efficient

 

[JFletcher]

140 hours??? :jawdrop:

Does that include a week-long trip to Tahiti for two of the guys?

The estimate sounds way off, and it may have something to do with you multiplying a single cable pull by 6 rather than pulling in sets.

Mstrlucky74, next time you get a chance, go out in the field with the electricians and see how some of the stuff is actually installed in the field. Looking at spreadsheets or estimating software is not going to be nearly the help of some practical experience.

Even if someone answered that 140 hours is dead on, or that they did an identical pull last week with four guys in 8 hours (32 man hours), those figures aren't really going to help you do your job.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If there are any PVC 90s in the run, I would decline the job.

 

[mstrlucky74]

140 hours??? :jawdrop:

Does that include a week-long trip to Tahiti for two of the guys?

The estimate sounds way off, and it may have something to do with you multiplying a single cable pull by 6 rather than pulling in sets.

Mstrlucky74, next time you get a chance, go out in the field with the electricians and see how some of the stuff is actually installed in the field. Looking at spreadsheets or estimating software is not going to be nearly the help of some practical experience.

Even if someone answered that 140 hours is dead on, or that they did an identical pull last week with four guys in 8 hours (32 man hours), those figures aren't really going to help you do your job.

Thanks

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[mstrlucky74]

The negative comments the original poster has received on this thread are completely ridiculous. If people feel he is unqualified to be on this forum, that is what the report post to moderator tool is for.

berating members in public or questioning their qualifications has been against form rules since its Inception or as long as I have been here.

I know the original poster asks a lot of questions on this forum, the responses on this thread, a very public one, may have something to do with why our trade is declining. In my not-so-humble opinion, answer the man's question, or move on, the negativity is completely unproductive.

If there are any PVC 90s in the run, I would decline the job.

Why is that? Potential to bust through?

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[GoldDigger]

Why is that? Potential to bust through?

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Not "bust" through exactly.
The sidewall friction during the pull, which can be quite substantial in a long heavy pull, generates heat at a rate proportional to the wire pull speed. This heat can be great enough, even at slow pull speeds, to melt through the PVC 90. A metal 90 will not melt, may have a lower coefficient of friction, and will additionally be able to dissipate the heat better into the soil.

To simply break the PVC 90 would generally require more tension than is allowed for the wire or cable being pulled.

 

[jumper]

Not "bust" through exactly.
The sidewall friction during the pull, which can be quite substantial in a long heavy pull, generates heat at a rate proportional to the wire pull speed. This heat can be great enough, even at slow pull speeds, to melt through the PVC 90. A metal 90 will not melt, may have a lower coefficient of friction, and will additionally be able to dissipate the heat better into the soil.

To simply break the PVC 90 would generally require more tension than is allowed for the wire or cable being pulled.

I know you said “may” so I am not directly disagreeing by any means.

Now, for some reason I think, intuitively mind you, that the drag coefficient for metal 90 may be slightly worse, but the other reasons you state offset that value.

I need to look this up.

 

[cdslotz]

140 hours??? :jawdrop:

Does that include a week-long trip to Tahiti for two of the guys?

The estimate sounds way off, and it may have something to do with you multiplying a single cable pull by 6 rather than pulling in sets.

Mstrlucky74, next time you get a chance, go out in the field with the electricians and see how some of the stuff is actually installed in the field. Looking at spreadsheets or estimating software is not going to be nearly the help of some practical experience.

Even if someone answered that 140 hours is dead on, or that they did an identical pull last week with four guys in 8 hours (32 man hours), those figures aren't really going to help you do your job.

I checked his numbers.....140 man/hrs is right on the money.
Perhaps you should do some research on labor units and what they include other than the actual labor of pulling the cable.

 

[mstrlucky74]

I checked his numbers.....140 man/hrs is right on the money.
Perhaps you should do some research on labor units and what they include other than the actual labor of pulling the cable.

I do know... actual install is maybe 60% of unit, then layout, material handling, lost time. drawing study etc.

 

[cdslotz]

I do know... actual install is maybe 60% of unit, then layout, material handling, lost time. drawing study etc.

I was directing this to JFletchur.

Your numbers are correct

 

[JFletcher]

I checked his numbers.....140 man/hrs is right on the money.
Perhaps you should do some research on labor units and what they include other than the actual labor of pulling the cable.

Point taken, however I was not figuring just pulling time.