olly
Senior Member
- Location
- Berthoud, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Is it common practice to use stab lock connectors in residential dwellings and small commercial instead of twisting wire using wire nuts?
Push in wire connector in place of wirenut
- Thread starter olly
- Start date
- Status
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
it is becoming more common. there is always resistance to change, even with a product that has many advantages.
Another C10
Electrical Contractor 1987 - present
- Location
- Southern Cal
- Occupation
- Electrician NEC 2020
I'm sure its common but I find a design issue with wago's or stab in connections, the connection point of a stab in is based on a thin edge contact as opposed to a more solid surface connection found under a device bolt or twisted along other ( solid ) wires of a wire nut. I have to admit I have used them recently on recessed lights but that's because not much heat is subjected to the connection of a 17w LED trim load therefor I'll use them there but would never use stab ins on a heavier load like 2 or more amps.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The resistance to change will likely continue as long as people refuse to acknowledge there are differences between how different 'push-in' connectors are designed. Spring-clip connections, such as found in connectors like those from Ideal and Wago, have very little in common with the stab-in connectors found in inexpensive wiring devices other than the wire being inserted into a hole.
oldsparky52
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC USA
I remember hearing stories that some people resisted wire nuts when they 1st came out. They were concerned the connection was inferior to the solder method.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Spring clip connections have been out for some +20 years. The concept and installed history are neither new nor unproven. But, they are definitely becoming more prevalent, whereas the 'back-stab' is still only found in inexpensive wiring devices and has had limitations added to its use.
Another C10
Electrical Contractor 1987 - present
- Location
- Southern Cal
- Occupation
- Electrician NEC 2020
One thing I know about stab ins period is the design is less than solid, I cant tell you how many times I've had to change out a stab in receptacle because of mirco arcing from downstream connected loads, eventually connection points become oxidized so much that the continuity eventually fails or the wiring insulation begins to melt down due to the overheating from the more aggressive prolonged arching. I never use the stab in under potential heavy loads but hey, that's me.
Another C10
Electrical Contractor 1987 - present
- Location
- Southern Cal
- Occupation
- Electrician NEC 2020
In many respects knob and tube - soldered connections were a great design ... until rodents decided they liked the cloth outer covering for their nest
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The design of the push in wire connectors is much different that that of the stab in wiring devices. There is a much higher spring pressure and a much larger contact area in the push in wire connectors.
Another C10
Electrical Contractor 1987 - present
- Location
- Southern Cal
- Occupation
- Electrician NEC 2020
My experience was note # 8 ...mirco arcing from downstream connected loads
PaulMmn
Senior Member
- Location
- Union, KY, USA
- Occupation
- EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
If the K&T was installed properly, the lack of insulation on the wires shouldn't matter!
...'cepting it was allowed to be installed in the open.
PaulMmn
Senior Member
- Location
- Union, KY, USA
- Occupation
- EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
>waving hands< A minor detail!
Only touch 1 wire and there's no problem! Most of the 'in the open' would be in attics and in the joists in the basement. Maybe in the garage; wire might drop down to a switch or two. IIRC, my uncle's shop was wired K&T, with a twist-switch on the wall for the lights.
>waving hands< A minor detail!
Most of the 'in the open' would be in attics and in the joists in the basement. Maybe in the garage; wire might drop down to a switch or two. IIRC, my uncle's shop was wired K&T, with a twist-switch on the wall for the lights.
If it's the noodle, yeah, no problem. If it's the 'hot', it's not problem......... after you're killed.
PaulMmn
Senior Member
- Location
- Union, KY, USA
- Occupation
- EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
If it's the hot-- as long as you're not grounded...
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
I do that too, but you have to on the new LED fixtures with remote drivers, there is not enough room for wire nuts. I was installing some architectural fixtures a while back, and there was barely enough room for the connector!
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Wiring devices (e.g. receptacles) use a connection that is entirely different than a spring clip design.
Comparing these two is like comparing french fries to mashed potatoes, items made from the same material but with different construction and uses.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
Personal preference: I love the 'lever nuts' for compact wire connectors. As small as push in and IMHO not reliable than wire nuts for stranded wire.
Jon
Jon
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
...not or more...?
- Status