Puzzelled?
- Thread starter bennie
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ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Puzzelled?
I've also noticed that, although the term "consultant" has always been a bit suspect to me. No offense to Karl Riley, whose knowledge is well beyond the norm.
I've also noticed that, although the term "consultant" has always been a bit suspect to me. No offense to Karl Riley, whose knowledge is well beyond the norm.
scott thompson
Senior Member
- Location
- Anaheim, California
Re: Puzzelled?
Yes, I have noticed this "Neo-Technerd Trend" lately!
There was a quick end to the detoured discussion regarding the types of Ballasts, from the "Short Lamp Life" Thread. How it turned to Ballasts is another hot file thread!
Last response was from Bob B., but the person of which the reply was directed towards (another EE / Cornsultant) has not responded to it.
That's fine though, keeps hostility down! (I got kind of steamed myself!).
Why in the world would anyone willingly mention that they are an Engineer!
No real groupies (Wild Women) running after Engineers! Our extreme Analystic nature (being a fellow Analyzer) makes heads spin, and reluctance to change is only matched by the Mule (or Iron when subjected to 25 Hz - 10 Khz).
My new Injun-ear Motto:
Yes, I am an Engineer; I "Drive" the Cannon Ball from Pettycoat Junction, to Hooterville, then to Pixley every Weekday.
p.s. The Cannon Ball is an American type 4-6-0 wood burner Steam Locomotive, seen on two 1960's era sitcoms.
I think the Train of which Jim West and Artimus Gordon traveled on also had an American type 4-6-0, so if this is true, then make it 2 sitcoms, 1 action drama.
How's this for tossing the topic off track - pun intended!
Scott
Yes, I have noticed this "Neo-Technerd Trend" lately!
There was a quick end to the detoured discussion regarding the types of Ballasts, from the "Short Lamp Life" Thread. How it turned to Ballasts is another hot file thread!
Last response was from Bob B., but the person of which the reply was directed towards (another EE / Cornsultant) has not responded to it.
That's fine though, keeps hostility down! (I got kind of steamed myself!).
Why in the world would anyone willingly mention that they are an Engineer!
No real groupies (Wild Women) running after Engineers! Our extreme Analystic nature (being a fellow Analyzer) makes heads spin, and reluctance to change is only matched by the Mule (or Iron when subjected to 25 Hz - 10 Khz).
My new Injun-ear Motto:
Yes, I am an Engineer; I "Drive" the Cannon Ball from Pettycoat Junction, to Hooterville, then to Pixley every Weekday.
p.s. The Cannon Ball is an American type 4-6-0 wood burner Steam Locomotive, seen on two 1960's era sitcoms.
I think the Train of which Jim West and Artimus Gordon traveled on also had an American type 4-6-0, so if this is true, then make it 2 sitcoms, 1 action drama.
How's this for tossing the topic off track - pun intended!
Scott
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Puzzelled?
I would say passionate.
Scott I would not have thought you where old enough for Pettycoat Junction, I used to get to watch Wild Wild West with my Dad, it was a treat as I got to stay up past my bedtime.
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: Puzzelled?
I'm not sure how my "title" comes across on the forum list, but in a friendly environment, it is reasonable that anyone, even an engineer, might want to confirm some basic thoughts or concepts with other friendly people.
Are you suggesting that basic concepts not be considered for discussion?
Also consider that the title "engineer" or "consultant" doesn't mean a whole lot, as most fields/states do not prevent anyone from hanging a shingle on the front of their shop.
Heck that goes for many trades
I'm not sure how my "title" comes across on the forum list, but in a friendly environment, it is reasonable that anyone, even an engineer, might want to confirm some basic thoughts or concepts with other friendly people.
Are you suggesting that basic concepts not be considered for discussion?
Also consider that the title "engineer" or "consultant" doesn't mean a whole lot, as most fields/states do not prevent anyone from hanging a shingle on the front of their shop.
Heck that goes for many trades
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Puzzelled?
It is interesting what the levels of expertise are among the various people who say they are a "________" and prove otherwise. Considering that no one has a clue as to the person doing the posting, why not be up front with everyone? If they choose to reveal their identity, there is no backpedaling required.
It is interesting what the levels of expertise are among the various people who say they are a "________" and prove otherwise. Considering that no one has a clue as to the person doing the posting, why not be up front with everyone? If they choose to reveal their identity, there is no backpedaling required.
Re: Puzzelled?
Sometimes the question asked, eliminates that person from the task.
I have a problem responding to someone who states they are engineer, consultant, or rocket scientist, and ask "Which way does the handle on a three way switch go, up or down"?
I am often embarrassed for the person, and do not know a diplomatic way to answer some questions.
This is definitely not a forum to pretend being something a person is not. Look at me, I get nailed every time
Sometimes the question asked, eliminates that person from the task.
I have a problem responding to someone who states they are engineer, consultant, or rocket scientist, and ask "Which way does the handle on a three way switch go, up or down"?
I am often embarrassed for the person, and do not know a diplomatic way to answer some questions.
This is definitely not a forum to pretend being something a person is not. Look at me, I get nailed every time
wanderer20001us
Senior Member
Re: Puzzelled?
What ever happened to the saying, "There are no stupid questions"?
Be glad that your education and experience has made you better able to understand and comprehend electrical distribution. I have worked around 'licensed' electricians that lack even basic understanding of electricity. They learn 'pull this size wire' and 'land this wire here and that wire there' without knowing, or even worse caring why. At least the people who post here have the motivation to find out more about electricity.
I think this forum is a wonderful thing. I have learned many things since I've started participating. I hold two licenses, journeyman and PE, and I am constantly reminded of how much I still don't know or need refreshers now and again. I wouldn't want people getting the feeling that the quest for more information in places like this is not worth the ridicule they might receive.
Just my thoughts
What ever happened to the saying, "There are no stupid questions"?
Be glad that your education and experience has made you better able to understand and comprehend electrical distribution. I have worked around 'licensed' electricians that lack even basic understanding of electricity. They learn 'pull this size wire' and 'land this wire here and that wire there' without knowing, or even worse caring why. At least the people who post here have the motivation to find out more about electricity.
I think this forum is a wonderful thing. I have learned many things since I've started participating. I hold two licenses, journeyman and PE, and I am constantly reminded of how much I still don't know or need refreshers now and again. I wouldn't want people getting the feeling that the quest for more information in places like this is not worth the ridicule they might receive.
Just my thoughts
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Puzzelled?
I obviously can't speak for Bennie, but I can certainly tell you where I was coming form with my remark.
There was a post a few months ago from a "consultant" that wanted to know how you size a feeder circuit...whether it is for for the breaker protecting the conductors, or the rating of panel, or if you just added up all the breakers and sized it off of that. I replied by asking what it is that he consults.
I got a private message sometine later saying what a jerk I am. I explained to him that if he charging people money to do electrical consultation and he doesn't know the answer to this he is a criminal.
Now, if that person had said that he was an apprentice electrician, he would have been received warmly and open arms, and I'm sure he would have gotten the response that he was hoping for.
I obviously can't speak for Bennie, but I can certainly tell you where I was coming form with my remark.
There was a post a few months ago from a "consultant" that wanted to know how you size a feeder circuit...whether it is for for the breaker protecting the conductors, or the rating of panel, or if you just added up all the breakers and sized it off of that. I replied by asking what it is that he consults.
I got a private message sometine later saying what a jerk I am. I explained to him that if he charging people money to do electrical consultation and he doesn't know the answer to this he is a criminal.
Now, if that person had said that he was an apprentice electrician, he would have been received warmly and open arms, and I'm sure he would have gotten the response that he was hoping for.
wanderer20001us
Senior Member
Re: Puzzelled?
Fair enough. Didn't mean to ruffle any feather. I guess I just can't let myself think that people would actual charge money for info they are getting here.
See, I'm still learning.
Fair enough. Didn't mean to ruffle any feather. I guess I just can't let myself think that people would actual charge money for info they are getting here.
See, I'm still learning.
Re: Puzzelled?
I have no problem with people asking simple basic questions. I have done this in the past and received comments that implied I should have known the answer. In this business, we can't afford to be 95% sure of an answer. If there is 5% doubt, why not get a second opinion?
That said, there are some questions that make me think duhhh. Those include:
1. The questions that we see every other week. (i.e. - ground up or down).
2. The questions that make it obvious the asker doesn't own a code book or is too lazy to look up the answer. (ie. what does article 517 say?)
3. Questions that are way too general or broad (ie. What do I need to know about hazardous locations?).
Steve
[ March 18, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
I have no problem with people asking simple basic questions. I have done this in the past and received comments that implied I should have known the answer. In this business, we can't afford to be 95% sure of an answer. If there is 5% doubt, why not get a second opinion?
That said, there are some questions that make me think duhhh. Those include:
1. The questions that we see every other week. (i.e. - ground up or down).
2. The questions that make it obvious the asker doesn't own a code book or is too lazy to look up the answer. (ie. what does article 517 say?)
3. Questions that are way too general or broad (ie. What do I need to know about hazardous locations?).
Steve
[ March 18, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Puzzelled?
Please bear in mind that the NEC is NEVER (OK, I should say ?almost never,? but I won?t) included as a text book in any electrical engineering degree program. Also absent from any EE degree program is any discussion of selecting wire sizes, conduit types, or panels (3-wire versus 4-wire). I had worked for six different employers over a 25 year period before I was assigned a task that required me to open the NEC. Before that date, I could have given you a vast great deal of information on ?basic fundamentals,? but would have responded with a blank stare if anyone mentioned ?310.16.? I have since had to learn a great deal, and to learn it quickly. Beforehand, I was blissfully ignorant of NEC requirements and electrical construction issues. Now I have learned enough to know that I still have much to learn.
Please be patient with those of my ilk. This forum has value for the simple reason that every single member knows something that no other member knows. The forum works because we are willing to share what we know.
Charles E. Beck
Licensed Professional Engineer, Licensed Electrical Administrator, and sometime ?consultant.?
The definition of an ?easy test? is ?one to which you know the answers.?
Please bear in mind that the NEC is NEVER (OK, I should say ?almost never,? but I won?t) included as a text book in any electrical engineering degree program. Also absent from any EE degree program is any discussion of selecting wire sizes, conduit types, or panels (3-wire versus 4-wire). I had worked for six different employers over a 25 year period before I was assigned a task that required me to open the NEC.
Before that date, I could have given you a vast great deal of information on ?basic fundamentals,? but would have responded with a blank stare if anyone mentioned ?310.16.? I have since had to learn a great deal, and to learn it quickly. Beforehand, I was blissfully ignorant of NEC requirements and electrical construction issues. Now I have learned enough to know that I still have much to learn. Please be patient with those of my ilk. This forum has value for the simple reason that every single member knows something that no other member knows. The forum works because we are willing to share what we know.
Charles E. Beck
Licensed Professional Engineer, Licensed Electrical Administrator, and sometime ?consultant.?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Puzzelled?
I would love to know it all but it is not possible. I thought everyone on the Code Making Panels knew everything and I wasn't really qualified to be there. I changed my mind quickly about who knew what.
Charlie, that is how I define myself as an expert. I have learned enough to realize how much I do not know! The amount of things I do not know about the Code is very large. When I am in those areas, I am not ashamed to let everyone know that I am a novice.
I would love to know it all but it is not possible. I thought everyone on the Code Making Panels knew everything and I wasn't really qualified to be there. I changed my mind quickly about who knew what.
tony_psuee
Senior Member
- Location
- PA/MD
Re: Puzzelled?
Well put charlie b. I am in my infancy, 9 years, and have only been dealing with the NEC for the past 5yrs and there were a lot of "dumb questions" that have been asked. However, had I not asked them and gotten an answer the consequences could have been fatal for somebody while I sat safely at my desk. I have learned more from this forum since I joined last July than in probably my first 2 years dealing with the NEC. Something that can cause difficulty for us engineers is getting the money for continuing education training. I'm trying to go to an NEC seminar this year and my boss turned white when I told him the cost, almost $1000 for three days. At my last job it took 3 years until a 2 day seminar was scheduled when money was still in the budget for it.
People being consultants is a whole other issue.
Tony
Well put charlie b. I am in my infancy, 9 years, and have only been dealing with the NEC for the past 5yrs and there were a lot of "dumb questions" that have been asked. However, had I not asked them and gotten an answer the consequences could have been fatal for somebody while I sat safely at my desk. I have learned more from this forum since I joined last July than in probably my first 2 years dealing with the NEC. Something that can cause difficulty for us engineers is getting the money for continuing education training. I'm trying to go to an NEC seminar this year and my boss turned white when I told him the cost, almost $1000 for three days. At my last job it took 3 years until a 2 day seminar was scheduled when money was still in the budget for it.
People being consultants is a whole other issue.
Tony
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: Puzzelled?
It is a shame that we have to have this type of thread. I always thought is was great that all types ask and answer question on this forum. What would be the ramifications of someone posing the same question regarding the tradesmen. It is a silly question!
Sorry for the rant, but it's unfortunate to try to knock down folks trying to learn.
[ March 18, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: ron ]
It is a shame that we have to have this type of thread. I always thought is was great that all types ask and answer question on this forum. What would be the ramifications of someone posing the same question regarding the tradesmen. It is a silly question!
Sorry for the rant, but it's unfortunate to try to knock down folks trying to learn.
[ March 18, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: ron ]
Re: Puzzelled?
Ron, I think there may be some misunderstanding of the topic. In my case it's not the questions, it's the misrepresentation of the person asking the questions.
For example; (this is not a real situation although there have been some that are on the same plain) when someone profiles himself as say a "master electrician" and ask a question something like, "Where can I find the tables for wire ampacity in the code book?" it's pretty obvious something is not up to snuff.
When there are similar basic questions asked by those in their represented expertise, it becomes obvious some wool is being pulled over our eyes and the misrepresentation is blatant.
An engineer asking a code question is not a problem anymore than an electrician (which is the way I list myself)
asking a question you as an engineer could answer and would think is a given.
OK I'm stepping down from my soap box now.
Roger
[ March 18, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Ron, I think there may be some misunderstanding of the topic. In my case it's not the questions, it's the misrepresentation of the person asking the questions.
For example; (this is not a real situation although there have been some that are on the same plain) when someone profiles himself as say a "master electrician" and ask a question something like, "Where can I find the tables for wire ampacity in the code book?" it's pretty obvious something is not up to snuff.
When there are similar basic questions asked by those in their represented expertise, it becomes obvious some wool is being pulled over our eyes and the misrepresentation is blatant.
An engineer asking a code question is not a problem anymore than an electrician (which is the way I list myself)
asking a question you as an engineer could answer and would think is a given.
OK I'm stepping down from my soap box now.
Roger
[ March 18, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Re: Puzzelled?
Thanks again, Roger. You explained my intention very well. I don't mean to put down legitimate professionals, I just don't appreciate being had.
I have a great respect for the engineers who are active on this forum. After 10 posts the truth is usually revealed.
Thanks again, Roger. You explained my intention very well. I don't mean to put down legitimate professionals, I just don't appreciate being had.
I have a great respect for the engineers who are active on this forum. After 10 posts the truth is usually revealed.
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