PVC conduit under drive thru?

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Christoph

Christoph

Master Electrician, Code Official
Location
Coopersburg, PA
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
Hi

I am bidding a remodel of a prominent Fast Food Chain Restaurant and was wondering if someone had any opinion on if there is the need for RIGID in the area of the drive through / underground portion, coming out of a pull box at the cashiers window, there are a bunch of 3/4 to 2" conduits called for and the difference between PVC and rigid is $6k.

So far i have determined PVC to be acceptable in the Uses permitted section of the code, I am just making sure there is no other thing I am missing e.g. areas with traffic etc. roadways.

Thank you
 
It's Mc... I mean a restaurant they always kust tell you you gotta do what's code.

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From 300.5 it would appear PVC or Rigid would both require 24"
 
That's fine they are gonna be digging anyway so I'm not concerned with depth. It's more of a concern like gas stations where you have to setup up with rigid just because of the vehicle traffic.

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Christoph said:
That's fine they are gonna be digging anyway so I'm not concerned with depth. It's more of a concern like gas stations where you have to setup up with rigid just because of the vehicle traffic.

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Often your gas station rigid stub ups are due to hazardous (classified) locations.
If your exposed conduits are subject to physical damage 300.5(D) requires physical protection with rigid, IMC, Sch 80 PVC, etc.
 
PVC conduit under drive thru?

Use PVC; that part should be in the drawings.

Also, I’m curious where you’re working at? We build a ton of these across the southeast.

FYI; do not set your 2” & 1-1/2” conduits to land on the face of the block at the cash booth; they use 1-1/2” hack channel on that wall and those conduits will not fit within the wall space. You’ll have to set them into the block an inch and the masons will need to cut around them. The “pull box” will just be a 12”x12” stainless cover on the wall with a grommet in the center.

The newer ODMB specs call for 1/2” steel power conduit to the COD, but I’ve done literally 100 of these with 3/4” PVC for power. Idk why they changed that spec to steel, but I haven’t seen it actually included in the bid drawings; it’s a separate sheet corporate EE sent out awhile back, but it’s labeled as a “vendor spec”.

If this is a remodel, we take those conduits on the surface of the building and bring them in above the ceiling grid; GC will paint to match; and again if it’s a remodel of an old mansard style roof, get your conduits in before they start the EIFS. Then let the POS guys fish their cables down the wall at the cash booth.

Also you don’t need 1-1/2” for the loop detector; 3/4” is fine. And if a remodel, you’re going to need a 3’ SDS masonry bit to get through the footer.

Your best bet is to set a handhole box in each lane and branch out to each base for data and power. It’s much easier to pull that way; you don’t want to be fighting that much cable in the base of those signs. There’s a drawing somewhere that shows that; I don’t think it’s in the bid set, but another EE addendum that was sent out that applies to all.

One more thing to add because I get this question all the time; on the IDMB, it shows two 4x4x4 JB’s and a 4” conduit sleeve on the SAM wall. That is option A & option B; whereas you either do the two JB’s, OR the 4” conduit sleeve; not both. But you do need to give them a JB or a 2gg plaster ring on the back of that wall above the two quad IG’s to bring the CAT6 in for the media players.

On the exterior D/T equipment, in all the regions I work in, they ship the CAT6 to the job site and the EC has to pull it; I assume it’s that way in all regions but you prob want to verify that. I say all of this because I’m guessing you’re new to it, and there’s a lot to know that just isn’t in the bid set. They regularly send out changes for all of the exterior and interior menu board stuff, as well as the front service counter, and they just expect that you’ve been given this information and apply it to your bid.

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I just noticed you said remodel in the first post. so unless they are completely demo’ing the D/T concrete, you’re coming up the back wall with all this conduit. Even if they do tear it out, which I’ve never seen them do, you’re not getting those conduits up that footer. They’ll likely tear out just in front of the windows for new loop detectors, and you’ll have to drill through the wall and footer to get out. They’ll have to replace the base tile there because you can’t get the angle on the wall to get through; you’ve got to go at the very base of the floor. And do it to the side of the window because the P..OS guys have to be able to fish down to that and connect it.


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The last job I did like this the EI told me wherever the conduit passed under a driveway or roadway it had to be encased in concrete. I can't cite the Code section off-hand but I would check to make sure if it is or is not required before you bid on this IMHO.
 
brantmacga said:
I just noticed you said remodel in the first post. so unless they are completely demo’ing the D/T concrete, you’re coming up the back wall with all this conduit. Even if they do tear it out, which I’ve never seen them do, you’re not getting those conduits up that footer. They’ll likely tear out just in front of the windows for new loop detectors, and you’ll have to drill through the wall and footer to get out. They’ll have to replace the base tile there because you can’t get the angle on the wall to get through; you’ve got to go at the very base of the floor. And do it to the side of the window because the P..OS guys have to be able to fish down to that and connect it.


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Wow thanks for all this info.

You are right I am new. I have worked on a mcdonalds around here after someone had done a remodel. It was a nightmare, they had recessed cans sitting on top of ductwork in the ceiling all light up. And those old cans were feeding the new circuits.

A lot of things you are saying I can relate to, they will be shipping the cat 6. With the conduit and the concrete I guess we will have to see.

I'd give an arm and a leg to see some of your numbers for those kinds of remodels or have you tell me if mine are realistic. I don't know if that's ethical or not. Like I said I'm new to estimating.

Thanks a ton

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There you go. Right at the beginning of the PVC article
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