QO-GFI straight 240V rated

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chris kennedy

chris kennedy

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Location
Miami Fla.
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60 yr old tool twisting electrician
I'm looking at the Sq-D catalog on line. I need 4 QO-GFI 230's for a brewer. Doesn't look like them make them. Will a 2 pole GFI breaker even work across the high leg of a delta? Never had the need to do that before.

Thanks
 
chris kennedy said:
I'm looking at the Sq-D catalog on line. I need 4 QO-GFI 230's for a brewer. Doesn't look like them make them. Will a 2 pole GFI breaker even work across the high leg of a delta? Never had the need to do that before.

Thanks
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No, but why can't you use it across the other two legs?
It's not made, because it does not need to be made...

When I worked for Siemens, this came up a lot actually. The issue is, there is no need for a GFCI breaker for anything that is not connected to a circuit with a Neutral available (whether you use it or not). The only place this situation can exist then is the High leg panels, which will always have a 120/240V rated circuit in it, so you just you those poles. The cost for a breaker mfr to make, test, market and maintain a breaker with almost no expected use is too much to be worth doing.
 
Jraef said:
No, but why can't you use it across the other two legs?
It's not made, because it does not need to be made...
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Manufacture of the equipment sent parts to upgrade the control equipment from 100A 1Ø to 200A 3Ø. Panelboard guts and breakers. Not enough A-C spaces to fit the 8 2pole breakers.
 
Rampage_Rick said:
If you didn't connect anything to the breaker neutral (line or load) I can't see it not working from a technical standpoint. This post indicates that the neutral pigtail isn't necessary for the test button to function (with SqD at least)
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That dang 240/120 rating is getting in the way again would be my guess.

On a side note we are in the market and those suckers are expensive. QO Single pole GFI with equipment protection breakers are about $320 and $565 for the double pole, from local suppliers. $170 from an online dealer. Those good deals make me nervous.
 
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Been a while since I played with a two pole square D GFCI breaker to figure out what combinations of connections errors or lost supply conductors do what, but from what I recall the GFCI control circuitry operates from one pole to the neutral - so besides it not being rated as a straight 240 volt breaker, get the wrong pole on the high leg and you fry the GFCI circuitry before you have any chance of getting any use out of it.

Your best bet is some device that has a control circuit and a open CT to pass the circuit conductors through that you intend to protect. I can't think of the name of any but pretty certain I have seen some of these before. I bet they aren't any cheaper either.
 
ptonsparky said:
Rampage_Rick said:
If you didn't connect anything to the breaker neutral (line or load) I can't see it not working from a technical standpoint. This post indicates that the neutral pigtail isn't necessary for the test button to function (with SqD at least)
Click to expand...

That dang 240/120 rating is getting in the way again would be my guess.

On a side note we are in the market and those suckers are expensive. QO Single pole GFI with equipment protection breakers are about $320 and $565 for the double pole, from local suppliers. $170 from an online dealer. Those good deals make me nervous.
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QO breakers are the number one circuit breaker target for counterfeiting and on-line sales is their number one choice for getting them on the market. Just sayin'...
 
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kwired said:
from what I recall the GFCI control circuitry operates from one pole to the neutral - so besides it not being rated as a straight 240 volt breaker, get the wrong pole on the high leg and you fry the GFCI circuitry before you have any chance of getting any use out of it.
Click to expand...

I agree, Had a Electrical PE tell me a 120 volt GFI breaker would work on a 220/380 system. Cause the supplier (salesman) told him it would.
It didn't last much longer than it took me to turn it on........
 
ptonsparky said:
Might help If they were not special order for both of the SQD sales in this area.
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Same here. Only time I asked for one the catalog number was not even in the system of the supplier.

Internet sales becomes a bigger friend in that case, or put them on a small job quote. I don't think the chances of a counterfeit EPD breaker will be nearly as high as a straight QO breaker with no additional features. Counterfeit GFCI breaker - maybe has a higher chance, but there just isn't enough demand for EPD breakers to make it worthwhile for those that would want to make/sell a counterfeit unit.
 
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