qualified employee

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mickeyrench

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edison, n.j.
what makes a maintenance machanic a qauilified employee when doing electrical work in a plant? These men are doing electrical and i am wondering how a company puts their trust in people without training. they are very good workers at doing their trade but a big drop off in electrical. take this instance , i was told to replace 2- 2- bulb t-5 ho ballasts with 1 t-8 f-32 4 bulb ballast. i was told those big ballast cost too much money and to just use the t-8. I DID IT and the light glowed for 30 minutes now 1 bulb glows.
and this is the forman. this is a new job for me and i have to stay awhile and i like to get through to this guy but he gets mad when i bring up anything about electrical work. i also have a blue seal for boilers and i am a backup if any electrical problems on my shift. i am trying not to let it bother me but it is really hard. thanks for listen.
 
first you need to make a decision here..are you going to be a team player or not..when you come down on a veteran employee like they don't know nothing you get a negative response instantly..then you start to be known as a trouble maker and you get no credit for your knowledge until time passes..So if you want to be a team player then you need to work at encouraging them to improve their knowledge of what they are doing..If the foreman told you to jump off the cliff would you..then why would you put a light together knowing it was wrong..So don't blame the Foreman I bet he did not stand there with a gun..lead by example and you can get where your going faster..I worked in the industrial sector for years and plants are never going to change without someone leading the way..so lead don't be over bearing..these are just my opinions and maybe some of it fits and some of it does not and it is not meant to be mean or demeaning..
 
He is probably throwing bannana peels under your feet on purpose. carefully document everything you do in a PERSONAL DIARY a compsition book is perfect for this to meet legal requirements That way it remains YOUR property. A journal or a log can be deemed company property and be burried in legal ease. Unless you get taken under cover by someone at the top of the food chain. Cream eventually floats to the top but you have to pass a lot of contenders just like a nascar race to get in front.
 
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cschmid said:
first you need to make a decision here..are you going to be a team player or not..
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An equally important question, "should my caboose get caught in this train wreck."

The forman with thumb in orifice is playing rough shod. This is not a team player nor a team environment. Different rules apply.

cschmid said:
..when you come down on a veteran employee like they don't know nothing you get a negative response instantly..then you start to be known as a trouble maker and you get no credit for your knowledge until time passes..
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True, however, I have never seen knowlegable people in this trade consitantly give away their skills to the undeserving; especially after repeatedly being burned.

IMO Expecting people to behave like Mother Terisa or turn the other cheek is more idealistic and less realisitic. Witholding knowlege is the more common response to ungrateful & overbearing treatment, and perhaps the best response.

IMO More leverage exists with your integrety intact. By calmly informing the fool --at least once-- the correct way, the fool is given the oportunity to become their own worst ememy, and lose all credibility by not listening.

If you did your duty --without arguing-- then you told them so, and now they can't expect you to back them up or protect them.
 
roger very good points..I myself just do it correctly even if the guy thinks he knows it all..the final product is what they are after and in this case it was illumination of an area..the final winner is the employees working in area..doing illumination job incorrectly everyone sees and think of person doing the job not the incompetant boss..just follow the CYA program (cover your A--)..
 
True, however, I have never seen knowledgeable people in this trade consistently give away their skills to the undeserving; especially after repeatedly being burned.
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Not true in my expierence, I have known and worked with some excellent maintenance , engineers, electricians and basic maintenance workers. There are some hacks. But you make a blanket statement and one person can show you, you are wrong and the statement is worthless.


IMO Expecting people to behave like Mother Terisa or turn the other cheek is more idealistic and less realisitic. Witholding knowlege is the more common response to ungrateful & overbearing treatment, and perhaps the best response.

IMO More leverage exists with your integrety intact. By calmly informing the fool --at least once-- the correct way, the fool is given the oportunity to become their own worst ememy, and lose all credibility by not listening.[/qoute]

Probably not worth mentioning, but have you ever read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? or "All I Ever Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten"? as Grandma use to say you get more with honey that you do with vinegar.
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There are always exceptions, especially if my typical, commercial-construction environment is different from your typical maintanance environment.

For starters, we rarely interact with engineers who are specifically banned from our jobsites --as specified on most commercial plans I've seen--.

Further, if the construction workforce does not include ex-con's, which I've seen in both merrit and organized shops, then it's people with no credit, no cash, little planning skills, much less integrety, or gratitude for anything nice you do for them.

I am familiar with Dale Carnegie, but not specifically the technique you are referring to. If you wan't to share it, I will play it, and tell you the results in my environment.

I am willing to try, however, unsure if quoting peace & love, or behaving smartly would get me much more than the nick name of "Ghandie."

In my trade, nice people are laid off first, or pick up trash, or shovel dirt, while everyone else sits in the shade laughing about their wage garnishments for child support, or while sharing vulgar images over their cell phones.

Dale Carnegie could apply to my animal kingdom, but I haven't seen any survivors there who talk about it, much less survivors over 40. In typical fashion right now, my boss is 20 years my junior.
 
cschmid said:
..doing illumination job incorrectly everyone sees and think of person doing the job not the incompetant boss..just follow the CYA program (cover your A--)..
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The CYA program I learned was a bit different, since the Uniform code of Military Justice is intollerant of insubordination. Even if the orders are wrong, SNAFU and FUBAR is preferable to letters of reprimand, or other discipline for failure to follow your orders.

The concept of alterning my instructions did not occur to me until more recently. I had to buy my own PPE, and force my construction contractor (GC) to let me use it on energized 480 vdc. Still waiting to get re-imbursed for this receipt --with specific references to CFR 29 1910 / 1926 / NFPA 70E--, but not holding my breath.
 
Industrial Maintenance Tech's

Industrial Maintenance Tech's

That was my title at two different factory jobs. Electrical was my main focus, but we did all kinds of mechanical work as well. As you may have seen, an electrician is the first one called to the crime scene. We made thee initial analysis, we also manned welding, fittings, alignments and the such. When the job was out of our league, we called in the specialists for the problem at hand.

"Factory electricians", we do more than just checks your shorts:grin:

If it involved anything electrical, the millwrights remained as standby's. We would call them in as needed.
 
What has worked for me is to inform a superior of an error in a 'just for your information' manner and also inform them that it is 'their call' to do it any way they feel fit, so long as it does not put people in danger. If I am correct and they make the error in spite of my advice I just watch the fireworks and grin. I figure so long as I collect a check for my work it's not my job to make decisions for my superiors, but it is my job to support them by letting them know that I would feel remiss in not informing them of an error.

Example: On the last job I was on we were connecting some fairly large buss in a power plant. I over heard the foreman tell one of the Journeyman that the phases were X Y Z in that order. I helped tear out the old doghouse and on it were the phases Z Y X in that order. I told him what I saw and he disagreed with me. I laughed (he had a pretty good sense of humor) and said that it was his call but if he hooked it up backwards all the motors in the plant would spin the wrong way. He gave me a strange look and said he would check on it. Later that day they were connecting the stress cones and they were connecting them correctly. The foreman never admitted he was wrong, but I didn't care. I liked the company I was working for and I was happy that they didn't look like idiots for making such a simple but gross error.

I later joked with the other Journeyman that if I hadn't caught the error the electricity would have been sucked out of the grid back into the power plant and turned back into coal.
 
i agree that the job needs to be done the right way regardless, it must be done right. but in my case { op} the boss would not buy the correct ballast and insisted that i put in his f-32 ballast. we have a dangerous situation where we get a lot of water in the switches and conduits and needles to say this puts the operators in a dangerous spot. i told my boss that they have drains to put in the boxes and or conduit lines. he said that it's not necessary. maybe he'll put a hole in the bottom of the box. i can't get through to him even in a safety matter.
 
This week I did use my immediate chain of command to derail a serious train wreck before it happened. But, that action resulted in shifting both more responsibility and antagonism to me, from other foremen.

Letting my opinion rest, here is some usefull info.

OSHA's interpretation for qualified employee training requirements.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22124

OSHA Directorate said:
Question 3:
An employee has 10-25 years of on-the-job training on which there are no records. In this case, what basis could the employer use to certify that the employee has received training required by paragraph 1910.269(a)(2)?
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If you suspect a combination poor training or incompetence has put property and people in harms way, nothing prevents anonymous reports to OSHA (this will generate phone calls), or detailing these events in writing to either your operations manager, or OSHA given the relavant violations.

See your State OSHA site for reporting options, both anonymous and written.

Keep in mind if training is lacking, the employer may drum up some quick documentation to keep the same person in charge, and your life could get miserable. Further, claims usually have 30-60 days from the date of writting (whistle blowing) to formally notify OSHA of a whistleblower claim, in the event you are prejudicially terminated from employment.
 
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A sticky situation indeed. Some good points made by others.

#1. I would simply ask the foreman what postion you were hired for. If he says general maintenance, then he may not care about your electrical capabilities. At that point I would simply let him know that you have some experience in electrical work (don't offer how much) and be humble about it. Then offer to him that you would be more then happy to help him with any electrical stuff that comes up.

#2. No one likes a know-it-all. As a formen he's probably seen a lot of guys come and go that thought they new this, that, or the other thing. Until you get to know him, the last thing you want to do is come off like a savior on a big white horse coming to save the day. You need to focus on setting a good work ethic and fitting in with the other respected workers. Once you gain his trust as being responsible, he will in turn respect, and accept your opinions. Until then, your just a grunt giving him a problem if you persist with you unwelcome advice. The best you can do, is everything you can to make him look good. In turn he will take care of you, and that's important if layoff's come, or its time for a promotion.

#3. You don't know his motives for having the ballst installed. It could be that he himself has already pointed out the bad decision of the ballasts with his supervisor, and was told to do it anyway. Matter of fact, how do you know he isn't an electrician himself? Pointing it out to him may be like rubbing salt in wound. He may be purposely doing what he's been told because he is trying to make his boss look like an idiot. Who knows what his motivations might be. Until you gain his trust, he won't tell you squat.

Keep in mind that no matter where you work, there is always going to be people you don't like or get along with, and there are going to be situations you will get put in that are unsettling. The objective is finding the place where you can best tolerate those things.
 
I wish such voices of reason and experience were available to me a few years ago, since these issues were the toughest to figure out alone.
 
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