Qualified Persons Proposal

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al

al

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Proposal:

Change 110.3 to read:

Installiation, repair, and modifications of electrical installiations shall be made by quallified persons.

Re number existing 110.3 to 110.4 and so on.

Sustantiation:

To prevent unquallified persons from doing electrical installiations.
 
Who defines the term "qualified"?

I am perfectly capable of doing some kinds of electrical work, and would be a disaster at others.

The NEC should not be used to advance one's political or financial objectives.
 
Seems like the definition of qualified was "someone who understands the hazzards" so my last employer (which was a maintenance shop of mostly mechanics) had a 30 minute safety meeting talking about the hazzards of performing electrical work, had everyone sign after the meeting, and now everyone is a electrician........:mad:
 
Mule said:
Seems like the definition of qualified was "someone who understands the hazzards" so my last employer (which was a maintenance shop of mostly mechanics) had a 30 minute safety meeting talking about the hazzards of performing electrical work, had everyone sign after the meeting, and now everyone is a electrician........:mad:
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not an electrician, but perhaps capable of doing some very limited electrical work in a safe way.
 
petersonra said:
not an electrician, but perhaps capable of doing some very limited electrical work in a safe way.
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I don't know, I believe working around hazzards should require experience. But now I'm controlling people, and I dont like that either.

In all of my employeed years, I was very spoiled working for a company that had alot of electrical resources managing the electrical work. Every thing from design, supervision, scheduling, planning,etc....then it seems like in the last few years now we all have to "multi task" so all of my recent employers dont have ANY electrical resources or experience, then they hire ONE electrician, and you have to beg and plead to do things right. They dont have any respect for the code, NFPA, 70E or any the hazzards that exist. They hire people who are jacks of all trades and masters of none.

Off my soap box now...;)
 
There is no requirement in the NEC that a Qualified Person be an electrician. I am not sure that the word electrician is even used in the NEC or in NFPA 70E.
 
jim dungar said:
There is no requirement in the NEC that a Qualified Person be an electrician. I am not sure that the word electrician is even used in the NEC or in NFPA 70E.
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AND? what's your point, let me use a different word or phrase....should a "individual doing the work" be doing it right, or unsafe?
 
jim dungar said:
There is no requirement in the NEC that a Qualified Person be an electrician. I am not sure that the word electrician is even used in the NEC or in NFPA 70E.
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It does, actually, at lest in the NEC. Three times in the Code-Making Panels, and twice in Annex H.
 
Amendment

Amendment

proposed change:

Installiation, repair, and modifications of electrical installiations shall be made by quallified persons, or those persons directly supervised by qualified persons.

Comment: This would allow apprentices or others depending upon state law. The definition of Qualified Persons is in Art 100
 
I expect that the code making panel would reject the language shown in bold below.
3-30 Log #2256 NEC-P03 Final Action: Reject
(300.5(D)(3))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Comment on Proposal No: 3-49
Recommendation: The panel should accept this proposal.
Substantiation: The panel statement says that if a safety rule is difficult or
expensive to comply with then we don’t need it in the code. The “warning
ribbon” rule is intended to provide some protection in the form of a warning
ribbon to someone who is digging in the area of the underground service cable.
The method of original installation does not change the level of hazard to
the future digger. They are just as hurt or killed if they dig into an energized
service cable that was installed using directional boring equipment as one that
was installed using conventional trenching. If this is really a hazard to future
workers, then they deserve the protection of a warning ribbon no matter what
cable installation method was used. If it is not really a hazard, then the rule
should be deleted from the code, but you can’t have it both ways. The panel
statement says one is safe to the future digger and the other is a hazard, when
in reality there is no difference in the level of hazard involved.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The only way to install a warning ribbon 12 inches above a
bored hole containing service conductors would be to drill an additional hole
with the ribbon inserted in the hole and pulled through from one location to
another or to dig a trench to a depth 12 inches above the cable. In addition,
since the ribbon would be installed in a drilled hole, the inspector would not
be able to verify the depth of the ribbon as being 12 inches above the service
conductors. Unenforceable requirements must not be inserted into the NEC.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13
____________________________________________________________
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Mule said:
AND? what's your point, let me use a different word or phrase....should a "individual doing the work" be doing it right, or unsafe?
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they should be doing it right and safely. there is just no reason to require all electrical work arbitrarily be done by a government approved electrician.

there are a lot of people safely doing various kinds of electrical work. many of them doing it far better than government approved electricans might do it. should we force those people to stop doing it and have lesser skilled people start doing it?
 
petersonra said:
they should be doing it right and safely. there is just no reason to require all electrical work arbitrarily be done by a government approved electrician.

there are a lot of people safely doing various kinds of electrical work. many of them doing it far better than government approved electricans might do it. should we force those people to stop doing it and have lesser skilled people start doing it?
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I guess "down deep" all I care is that the work is done safely and reasonably to code. In Okra-homa to "Contract" you must have a license and be bonded and insured and I think thats not to overbearing and is in the best interest of the public.

On the flip side I believe that HO's should be able to get a permit and DIY all they want, but it should be inspected and done right.

In the case of iWires celing pics, there will always be people that will do that kind of work, and there should be inspections and if a EC like that persist he should loose his license.....
 
At the request of the other Moderators I am reopenning this thread.

The !!! Read This Before Creating An OP To This Forum !!! states ‘We do not intend to deal with “complaints, suggestions, philosophy” or similar issues…’ This includes comments to the OP unless they are clearly directed toward the Formal Action reflected in the OP.

At this stage we are trying to help folks develop Proposals. If you don’t like the Proposal, you can certainly explain why, but keep on point. If you REALLY don’t like it, wait for the Comment stage if a CMP accepts it.
 
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