Qualifying an employee

[puckman]

The company I work for is going to approve maintenance people quilified to work on electrical. I understand there will be different degrees of work aloud and I like to find out some Idears of how some of you would test or teach a mechanic to work on electricity. It would be somewhere in the area of motor disconnect or wire up a motor, maybe troubleshoot.
It would not be on new installations. How far do you think a mechanic should go?

Thanks for your input.

 

[iwire]

NJ requires licensing, first I would check the licensing laws and see how much they allow to be done without a license.

Beyond that it is an OSHA thing.

Training - 1910.332

 

[Ken9876]

(k) Repair, manufacturing and maintenance work on premises occupied by a firm or corporation,
and installation work on premises occupied by a firm or corporation and performed by a regular employee who
is a qualified journeyman electrician.

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/laws/ElectricLaw.pdf
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/laws/ElectricRegs.pdf

I don't think they would need to have a license but they would have to become a journey man electrician.

Is this work all going to be for the company on their property or on others property?

 

[iwire]

I don't think they would need to have a license but they would have to become a journey man electrician.

:-?:-?

How can anyone be J-man without holding a license?

 

[nakulak]

2 points of consideration come to my mind:

1) legal jurisdictional rules (covered in above post)

2) liability of the company that is providing the labor. If the local rules don't cover the qualification to an extent that adequately qualifies the individuals for the task, maybe the company would be better served by providing enough training from a 3rd party (tech school ?) that would relieve them of the liability of a) having to make an ad-hoc determination of "what is qualified", and b) provide the employees with some semblance of standard education for the task to be performed (just as any other qualified electrician presumably would be provided). All of this would, of course, be in the interest of relieving liability for the company in terms of safety, and also in case of failure or accident.

 

[Rockyd]

I agree with the others. Just seems like a tremendous amount of effort by the company to bypass the law, by not hiring, or bringing in outside help for electrical work. Perhaps the company doesn't understand the implications in the NEC when they define Qualified Person in article 100 (including the FPN explanatory note attached)? Most states recognize a journeyman card as qualify to perform electrical work.

I'd hate to see this trend be pushed in other states.

 

[Goroon]

....area of motor disconnect or wire up a motor, maybe troubleshoot.

....area of motor disconnect or wire up a motor, maybe troubleshoot.

Bad can of worms there.. Mechanic as an Electrician. EXPERIENCE SPEAKING.

Over the years I have had to deal with this scenario. Unfortunately management will look at the job as easy, the mechanic sees money with a higher pay. Not saying it can?t be done.

Consider the safety aspect first!
Do you want to come in behind someone and ?risk it? or ?that person? or ?the person operating the equipment? or ?the installation? based on lack of understanding or trainning.

I turned the O.L. UP, then it started smoking, must have been a bad motor, all three times.
Bigger fuses are OK, because they fit.

The ?Home Run? was #10 and that?s good for 40 amps because it?s THHN (and in a wet Location.)

Start with a basic weed out. Ask ?What is Ohms Law.? Not knocking mechanics, but,?.
You will be surprised how many can't answer that or even know how apply it.
This applies to my selection of Licensed "Limited Maintenance Electricians" here also.
Lotsa Luck there

 

[Ken9876]

:-?:-?

How can anyone be J-man without holding a license?

In NJ the requirements are similar but there is no test to become registered J-man, just a matter of meeting the requirements and filling out the paper work. And a J-man would still have to work under a license holder.

 

[iwire]

In NJ the requirements are similar but there is no test to become registered J-man, just a matter of meeting the requirements and filling out the paper work. And a J-man would still have to work under a license holder.

Thanks, still tough for me to understand.

In my area we have Master and J-mans licenses.

Masters can run any size business and pull permits.

J-man can work by themselves, pull permits and run a company with one apprentice.

Apprentices must work under the direct supervision of a license holder

 

[infinity]

:-?:-?

How can anyone be J-man without holding a license?

NJ has different standards for Journeyman and Licensed Electrical Contractors. If you followed Ken's post a Journeyman can perform what is described in the OP without being a licensed electrical contractor.

(k) Repair, manufacturing and maintenance work on premises occupied by a firm or corporation, and installation work on premises occupied by a firm or corporation and performed by a regular employee who is a qualified journeyman electrician.

 

[iwire]

NJ has different standards for Journeyman and Licensed Electrical Contractors. If you followed Ken's post a Journeyman can perform what is described in the OP without being a licensed electrical contractor.

If I could have followed Ken's post I would not be asking questions.

How does one become a j-man in NJ?

I never said anything about being a licensed contractor, I was talking about a licensed person.

 

[hurk27]

I know here and in several other areas of the country large industrial plants are kind of self governed. in Indiana only permits required is on new service installs, and many of the local inspectors here wouldn't have a clue at what they were looking at anyways, but in the light of safety it would seem prudent to have some kind of testing in place to assure some kind of knowledge of the work to be preformed, many industrial company's have a train as you go type of employment, and this allows them to hire in lower cost employees, and just train them on the job, but safety goes down with this arrangement if the safeguards are not in place for checking of how much they have learned, injuries are just a matter of time.

Local schools can be of help in developing a test that would help in determining an potential employees qualifications, there are many on-line sources like here at Mike Holt that also have some sample test that could be built upon.

 

[Ken9876]

How does one become a j-man in NJ?

If you follow this link and go to 13:31-5.1 which was page 16 in the pdf or 31-12 of the doc. it will tell you there.

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/laws/ElectricRegs.pdf

 

[petersonra]

One of our customers has what are called multi-skill technicians. They are either electricians (more like instrument techs) who have learned some limited mechanical skills such as welding or mechanical techs who have learned some electrical stuff.

My observation has been that it works pretty good.

What the multi-skilled mechanics are allowed to do electrically is very limited but if a motor needs to be changed out it is nice not to have to tie up two people for a job that does not need it.

But this is in IL, not NJ.

Personally, my guess is the vast majority of "electricians" would be clueless if told to go troubleshoot a machine that your average maintenance guy does every day. Thats pretty much been my experience anyway.

The right guy for the job.

 

[puckman]

The company I work for is going to approve maintenance people quilified to work on electrical. I understand there will be different degrees of work aloud and I like to find out some Idears of how some of you would test or teach a mechanic to work on electricity. It would be somewhere in the area of motor disconnect or wire up a motor, maybe troubleshoot.
It would not be on new installations. How far do you think a mechanic should go?

Thanks for your input.

Work is to be done on company property.

 

[hurk27]

Work is to be done on company property.

I have worked in the maintenance field back in the late 70's when work was hard to find, we did have a learn on the job type of shop, and it was a great program as we had an on site EE who was also a teacher at a local collage, this is where I received much of my motor and controls experience.

but we did have limitations as to what we were allowed to "touch" based upon our experience/knowledge and this for the most part kept us safe, and since I had the most electrical background, I was put in charge over electrical, we had a tag out program that was worthless and after fighting to get a lock out system put in place I guess I became a thorn in there side as I was very safety minded, and was laid off. but it was a great experience and I learned allot.
If you have some vo-tech schools close around you they can provide testing, and even some nite classes for your workers who want to excel with your company, or hire in an experienced industrial electrician, who could set up training and hands on teaching.