Quell signal to Fire Pump - what route?

[Dark Sparky]

Quell systems are proprietary systems by Tyco. My understanding is that they keep the sprinkler pipes empty (they are for cold spaces/warehouses) - and only pump water upon event of a fire.

How do Quell systems (which have their own control panels) send the signal to the Fire Pump to start?

Do they send the signal via the facility's Fire Alarm system?
OR
Do they send the signal "directly" from the Quell control panels to the Fire Pump?

In our experience, Fire Alarm and Fire Protection (Quell) are two different animals. Tyco (Quell mfg) provides an option purchasable with their panels that would allow for a relay output upon event of a fire, to start the Fire Pump.

 

[iwire]

I have never heard the term quell system.

It sounds like what we would call a dry system and the water is held back by a valve which is held closed by air pressure until a sprinkler head is broken.

 

[gadfly56]

I took a look at Tyco's literature. This is just another dry system but the sprinkler is on steroids. It has a K-factor of 242. Your standard office sprinkler has a K of about 5.6. The K-factor is related to the flow at the head at a given pressure. For the Quell system to operate properly almost certainly requires a fire pump, but the pump won't be directly connected to the releasing panel. The fire pump has a pressure sensing line that looks at the system pressure downstream of all the valving on the riser. If it drops below the set point the fire pump will activate.

 

[truck41trouble]

Between the sprinkler heads and the deluge valve, the line is charged with air correct? Upon the activation of a head, air is released and the deluge dumps and water flows. Now.. Starting the firepump is a different animal, if the sprinklers are fed from city water there is a sensor reading pressure after the pump, once that drops the pump starts. Same scenario as a jockey pump. Normally the panel, controlls the starting of the pump, which usually must be manually reset. The starting circuit for the pump is usually independent of the alarm system , but is often integrated for system monitoring.

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[gadfly56]

Between the sprinkler heads and the deluge valve, the line is charged with air correct? Upon the activation of a head, air is released and the deluge dumps and water flows. Now.. Starting the firepump is a different animal, if the sprinklers are fed from city water there is a sensor reading pressure after the pump, once that drops the pump starts. Same scenario as a jockey pump. Normally the panel, controlls the starting of the pump, which usually must be manually reset. The starting circuit for the pump is usually independent of the alarm system , but is often integrated for system monitoring.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Technically it's a pre-action valve. In a deluge system all the sprinklers are open and activation is either via heat or smoked detectors, or more rarely, a pilot line charged with air and installed in tandem with the main sprinkler grid. A pre-action system can be single or double inerlocked. Single interlock has a supplementary fire detection system such as heat or smoke. When it activates, the water is released into the pipe, but will not flow until the sprinkler is activated. A double interlock adds air pressurization to the sprinkler line. The water won't enter the pipe until both the supplementary system is activated and the air pressure in the pipe is reduced.

 

[Dark Sparky]

... For the Quell system to operate properly almost certainly requires a fire pump, but the pump won't be directly connected to the releasing panel. The fire pump has a pressure sensing line that looks at the system pressure downstream of all the valving on the riser. If it drops below the set point the fire pump will activate.

This is true - the pump would activate based on pressure drop. However, Tyco also recommends "Fire Pump Start-Up / To Ensure that the full dydraulic capacity is available for system filling, fire pump start-up is recommended to be initiated upon activation of the fire detection system. A separately ordered Auxiliary Relay Module Potter MR-201/C for the Potter Electric Series PFC-4410-RC Releasing Panel must be utilized to perform this function...." (From "Quell Preaction And Dry Systems for Eliminating In-Rack Sprinklers" (publication TFP370, page 11 of 12).

This is how we think the signal should be sent to the fire pump - with this relay. However, some (including Tyco) are saying that the signal should run direct from the Quell panel(s) to the fire pump. Others are saying that the signal should run through the Fire Alarm panel.

 

[Dark Sparky]

. The starting circuit for the pump is usually independent of the alarm system , but is often integrated for system monitoring.

Truck41Trouble - can you expand on your thoughts? This is at the heart of what we're trying to determine.

If the circuit for starting the pump is independent of the [fire] alarm system, by what path then does the circuit usually run?

 

[iwire]

Truck41Trouble - can you expand on your thoughts? This is at the heart of what we're trying to determine.

If the circuit for starting the pump is independent of the [fire] alarm system, by what path then does the circuit usually run?

In my experience the fire alarm system has nothing to do with starting the fire pump.

The fire pump is controlled via the fire pump controller and pressure monitoring. If the pressure drops the pump starts if there is a fire or not until the pressure is restored. This is something you run into if the pressure maintenance pump (jokey pump) fails.

The fire alarm system only monitors the status of the pump and / or controller.

 

[truck41trouble]

Yes I can expand on my thoughts . But they are just thoughts, so don't take anything in quote. I dabble in fire systems but im no expert.
What ever your pressure sensing device is in the system, may close a set of contacts or a relay in the pump control panel. There also may be comm wires going to the alarm panel, signifying a running condition and sending it to the alarm company.

Where I used to work, we were right on a river and used river water as our fire suppression. Our service water system normally supplied fire pressure, upon loss of service water, a backup electric pump started. If pressure continued to drop, our diesel fire pump would start.
We weren't monitored or even connected to the outside world , so in the event of a,fire everything was handled in house. All of the relays to start pumps were all in a pump control center, with auxiliary contacts to annunciate an alarm . Those auxiliary contacts can be used to dial up the alarm company.

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[Dark Sparky]

Thanks!

Thanks!

In my experience the fire alarm system has nothing to do with starting the fire pump.

The fire pump is controlled via the fire pump controller and pressure monitoring. If the pressure drops the pump starts if there is a fire or not until the pressure is restored. This is something you run into if the pressure maintenance pump (jokey pump) fails.

The fire alarm system only monitors the status of the pump and / or controller.

Thanks iWire, Truck41Trouble, all. Very helpful.

 

[ryant35]

Quell systems are proprietary systems by Tyco. My understanding is that they keep the sprinkler pipes empty (they are for cold spaces/warehouses) - and only pump water upon event of a fire.

How do Quell systems (which have their own control panels) send the signal to the Fire Pump to start?

Do they send the signal via the facility's Fire Alarm system?
OR
Do they send the signal "directly" from the Quell control panels to the Fire Pump?

In our experience, Fire Alarm and Fire Protection (Quell) are two different animals. Tyco (Quell mfg) provides an option purchasable with their panels that would allow for a relay output upon event of a fire, to start the Fire Pump.

I worked on a fire alarm system in a 1 million square foot cold storage warehouse 6-8 years ago, it was the first Quell system installation in the country. There were 10 or so individual systems.

We were required to provide a relay for pump start-up with the fire alarm system. The FACP monitors each Quell system and on alarm the FACP would switch the addressable relay for pump start-up. 10 individual Quell system relays 2,000' away in the pump house would not have been a reasonable option.