question 310.8(d)

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sidbalkman

Member
Hi,new to the forum!!

I have a local inspector in a local Municipality requesting me to install overhead feeds from the house to the dettached garage..with a sunlight resistant marking,(or listed sunlight resistant)on the wire.I've used 10gauge thhn wire and he rejected the installation,acccording to some of the wire manufactures I've called they have stated to me that it's not available..as far as they know on anything below 8thhn..any reply on this matter will be grately appreciated.

Sid :confused:
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: question 310.8(d)

Sid are you saying you ran single 10 AWG conductors through the air from the house to a garage?

I don't think you can do that even with sunlight resistant wire.

It sounds like you have Open Wiring on Insulators and the use of that method is limited to industrial or agricultural establishments.
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

see 225.6 and table 310.13
Edited: don't see the word -sunlight resistant- listed in table..conforming to 310.8(d)

[ April 12, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

iwire,
I'm still learning too.-sunlight resistant-..What rated insulation might that be?
Haven't located yet..

[ April 12, 2005, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

Originally posted by sidbalkman:
acccording to some of the wire manufactures I've called they have stated to me that it's not available
Click to expand...
Sid,
You could be getting correct information.I can't find -sunlight resistant- rating listed.Explore 310.8(d)(3)option.And put a "W" on the insulation.I'm sure some others form members might be helpful too.
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

No,I was refering to 310.8(d)(3) as option in "tape" for covering the conductors if it could be found..
 
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mc5w

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

The manufacturer may also be telling you the wrong thing. A lot of the people who answer the phone are the cheapest people they can find. I one time showed up for a job interview 24 hours early and at the wrong building because Marconi hires the cheapest people they can find. I one time a few months ago saw some 3M meter sockets over at Leader Electric. I tried to look them up on 3M's website, then sent their alledged tech support poeple and email. They asked me to define the term "meter socket" before they could help me.

As long as the wire is marked "sunlight resistant" there should not be a problem. I was reading somewhere during the past 2 years that for practical purposes all W rated wire is supposed to be sunlight resistant because both the manufacturers and UL want to Keep It Simple Stupid.

Also, #12 and #10 wire is used extensively to wire current transformer metering and it could not be used unless it was sunlight resistant.

What I would do is to unhook 1 end of the open wiring span and let it down to the ground so that the inspector can read the actual wire markings.

Article 225(A)(1) allows #10 copper wire for spans 50 feet or less and #8 copper for longer spans unless the conductors are supported on a messenger wire.

225.10 allows open wiring for all outdoor situations that do not need to be explosionproof. You just cannot run open wiring on insulators indoors in a dwelling.

However, you might be better off to run UF cable that is attached to a messenger wire. That has a sunlight resistant jacket. 340.12(11) requires a messenger wire when UF cable is run as an overhead cable. See Article 396.

[ April 13, 2005, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: mc5w ]
 
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sidbalkman

Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

Originally posted by iwire:
Sid are you saying you ran single 10 AWG conductors through the air from the house to a garage?

I don't think you can do that even with sunlight resistant wire.

It sounds like you have Open Wiring on Insulators and the use of that method is limited to industrial or agricultural establishments.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of the limitations as per 310.8 locations,and Article 225(A)(1) and have even considered running UF cable that is attached to a messenger wire. That has a sunlight resistant jacket. 340.12(11).

Am I wrong in assuming that AWG10thhn is wrong for this application..I know usually every code enforcement(Inspector)individual has a different interpretation to NFPA 70 and its guidelines but how can he quote a particular section,such as sunlight resistant wire when it's not even being marked as such by wire manufactures,although It's a common practice to install single wire overhead feeds in Ca,and done many in the past..along comes this individual who's power has gone to he's head and will not budge an inch!!

Could I then implement my own marking 310.11(d) I think not!! :D Without some type of UL certification.

Sid
 
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eprice

Senior Member
Location
Utah
Re: question 310.8(d)

Back to iwire's first post. 300.3 (A)requires single conductors to be used as part of a recognized wiring method. What recognized wiring method is being used here? It sounds to me like open wiring on insulators also. And, as iwire pointed out, article 398 limits that method to industrial or agricultural establishments. 225.6 does not nullify 300.3(A). It would apply to open conductors where they are used in a recognized wiring method such as article 398 or 396.10(B). 396.10(B) is similarly limited to industrial establishments.
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

I'm sorry benaround,you must be working out of the 2002 code book.My area has adopted the 2005.
I have a 300.3(a) exception in my text sir..
 
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benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: question 310.8(d)

Dillon3c,

Have you no shame?? Not only do you make me hike out to the truck to get 2005,but now I have to tell you "YOU ARE RIGHT",---that's a lot easier to type than to say. Thanks for the schoolin'

frank
 
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pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Re: question 310.8(d)

I think that the '05 NEC helps with the new exception to 300.3(A), but we still need to use another resource - the UL White Book.

"Types TW, THW, THW-2, THHN, THHW, THWN. THWN-2, in all sizes that are marked "Sunlight Resistant" comply with an artificial weathering test."

Basically it means that the conductors are required to be marked as sunlight resistant, if used as open conductors in outdoor use.
 
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Re: question 310.8(d)

Conductors and cables rated for sunlight resistance may be marked Sun Res or Sunlight Resistant on the surface of the product and the package tag. These may be followed by the marking "for CT use." At one time the sunlight resistant rating was only granted in conjunction with the tray cable statement, and was limited to larger conductors. The performance requirements of messenger supported wiring forced the sunlight resistant rating to become a stand-alone feature, applicable to any size conductor.

p.81 Southwire Handbook
 
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eprice

Senior Member
Location
Utah
Re: question 310.8(d)

Originally posted by dillon3c:
eprice can 300.3(a)Exception be used in this Installation?
Click to expand...
hmmm... I don't know :) The 2005 won't be adopted here for about 8 months, so I don't have a copy yet. I guess it would depend on whether or not the 2005 has been adopted in Sid's area.
 
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