Question about 250.140

[Little Bill]

Let's say there is an existing 3-wire cable to a dryer. Now for some reason the cable was spliced in a metal box, would it be better if the metal box was not bonded so no current would be on it or better to bond it?
Code issues aside, just wondering the safest method. I have seen this a couple of times and got me to thinking.

 

[iwire]

Bond it, it is no less safe than the dryer that is bonded in the same way.

 

[ActionDave]

Do you mean bond it with the neutral at the box? I'd say better not to because of what you said, "so no current would be on it".

 

[iwire]

Unless you are using box to join the conductors no current will flow on the box unless there is a fault, same as an EGC.

This would be no diffrent than leaving a meter socket unbonded. Unsafe.

 

[user 100]

Let's say there is an existing 3-wire cable to a dryer. Now for some reason the cable was spliced in a metal box, would it be better if the metal box was not bonded so no current would be on it or better to bond it?
Code issues aside, just wondering the safest method. I have seen this a couple of times and got me to thinking.

I'm with iwire-what's the extra danger, really?
Or you can also replace the metal box with plastic and call it a day.

 

[iwire]

Or you can also replace the metal box with plastic and call it a day.

Now that sounds like a great plan.

 

[ActionDave]

Unless you are using box to join the conductors no current will flow on the box unless there is a fault, same as an EGC.

This would be no diffrent than leaving a meter socket unbonded. Unsafe.

Why don't we do this with old two wire romex circuits then?

 

[iwire]

Why don't we do this with old two wire romex circuits then?

Fair question that I can not answer.

 

[iwire]

Why don't we do this with old two wire romex circuits then?

Based on that, what code section would allow installing a new ungrounded metal box in a circuit that has no grounding means?

 

[ActionDave]

Fair question that I can not answer.

Well I think that qualifies it as a Great question then.

 

[K8MHZ]

Why don't we do this with old two wire romex circuits then?

It's a code violation (I know we aren't suppose to be concerned with that) to have a metal box if there is no ECG. It doesn't matter if it's 120, or 240 volts. That's why we don't do it.

The question is, why would someone use a metal box to make a splice in a circuit with no EGC? If someone did, and that needs to be addressed, bugging the neutral on to the box isn't the answer, replacing it with a plastic box is.

 

[K8MHZ]

Based on that, what code section would allow installing a new ungrounded metal box in a circuit that has no grounding means?

None.

One of our local inspectors gigs ECs on that quite a bit around here, as we have a lot of old wiring with no ECGs and metal boxes get used by the some of the unwashed masses.

 

[iwire]

Well I think that qualifies it as a Great question then.

:lol:

It really seems to depend on ones perspective because I thought much less of it.

 

[JFletcher]

Code issues aside I'm wondering why there would ever be a realistic need for a splice on a dryer cable?

That aside, I find the idea of a plastic box also fantastic here.

 

[K8MHZ]

Code issues aside I'm wondering why there would ever be a realistic need for a splice on a dryer cable?

That aside, I find the idea of a plastic box also fantastic here.

Moving the dryer to a location where the cable doesn't quite reach and splicing 10 feet of cable is much easier than pulling 60 feet of new cable, maybe?

 

[JFletcher]

Moving the dryer to a location where the cable doesn't quite reach and splicing 10 feet of cable is much easier than pulling 60 feet of new cable, maybe?

Point taken. Just been my experience that moving/re-arranging an existing laundry room winds up as part of a 'gut to the studs' job and pulling new 4 wire in place of the original 3 has to be done anyway.

 

[K8MHZ]

Point taken. Just been my experience that moving/re-arranging an existing laundry room winds up as part of a 'gut to the studs' job and pulling new 4 wire in place of the original 3 has to be done anyway.

Lots of work around here was done as fast and cheap as possible. That usually meant by someone without a license and of course, without inspection.

When we do the work, we always pull new cable. Our inspectors are strict, fair and nice so we really like to stay on their good side.

 

[ceknight]

Moving the dryer to a location where the cable doesn't quite reach and splicing 10 feet of cable is much easier than pulling 60 feet of new cable, maybe?

Around here it happens when people move their laundry from the basement into an upstairs living space. They remove the surface mount dryer outlet, replace it with a metal 4x4 (if you're lucky), then splice the new cable for upstairs.

 

[Little Bill]

This appears to be what was done in at least one of the instances that I encountered.

 

[kwired]

Code issues aside I'm wondering why there would ever be a realistic need for a splice on a dryer cable?

That aside, I find the idea of a plastic box also fantastic here.

Moving the dryer to a location where the cable doesn't quite reach and splicing 10 feet of cable is much easier than pulling 60 feet of new cable, maybe?

And if you are trying to comply with 1987 NEC is not a problem when it comes to needing to add that fourth conductor in most instances.