Question about tips for laying PVC pipe to speed me up

[LouisianaApprentice]

I wanted to ask a few different questions to some of u experienced people.

My first one is any tips on getting stub outs ready to be glued to. Whats do y'all bring rags and sharpshooter only? Honestly with how messy of a mudhole it was today I'd like to find something that would work better like maybe a Mason jointing trowel and concrete cutter water tank.

How do u guys gets 4inch pipe to make up easy? Today it was just me and another helper and it took both of us pushing and pulling. Do you guys use primer on certain sections...like maybe stub outs or for 90s? We used it today on the stub outs and it slid on like it wasn't nothing.

Do they make any equipment for finding conduit in ground better than a probing rod? I used it the whole time and it was fairly hard ground. It worked fairly well until we got into some Rocky soil but it really made the digging slow.

Also for every trachoe I've hooked up different attachments too the hydraulic lines are always a pain I'm not trained as an operator but is there any way to bleeding off pressure more than sticking a flathead in the quick connect. My boss wouldn't let me crack a fitting but with the machine dead it took 2 men to get the hoses on. Is there anyway to bleeding pressure from the machine? Like maybe dropping the blade or sitting the bucket down a certain way?

Thanks you guys in advance for any advice just trying to get some good habits and some decent tricks to show off.

 

[rambojoe]

i use prime on all pvc, most only use on 1 1/4" or bigger. in a muddy trench you just need to over ex the hole- keep it clean. lots of duct tape...
a baby sledge and a piece of wood helps to terminate pipe. if you keep it clean then you dont need to swab it till its all installed.

dont use a screwdriver on hydraulic connects. to release pressure just reach in the cab and jiggle the controls, even if the machine is off- make sense? i hope i dont need to tell you, make sure all personael are clear of the boom/attachments....

think clean. i keep a pvc coupler (or 2) with one side taped up for capping pipes and fittings. when you tape up a fitting even for a future stub, please- tape the un-sticky side first then finish off with the sticky side...especially on the male pipe. nothing worse than petrified duct tape!!!! that way it just takes a gentle cut to remove, especially when the trench is tight around a stub. that will always bugger up things when installing...

when you get into thousands of feet of pvc then I have more tips for ya and under ground runs can be art work too. especially your turn up racks...

p.s.- always dble check the type of pipe on big jobs. if you use the schedule 80 pile when it should of been 40- your gonna get thumped... alot of wiremen dont take underground very seriously (enough), but it is. it can ruin a job. oh, that's when you use a tracer wire. other than that, youll get good at finding stubs. think of how and where youd run it and what length of pipe. youll find it. and you can usually see where a trench was.

you will fail inspection if the inspector doesn't see evidence of primer...

 

[Coppersmith]

you will fail inspection if the inspector doesn't see evidence of primer...

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly use it if required.

 

[norcal]

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly use it if required.

If primer is used, it's not coming apart which is something I cannot say when no primer is used, but was not aware of any requirement to use primer on PVC other then potable water, & DWV pipe, & this is not a plumbing forum. :lol:

 

[rambojoe]

to the op. use the dang primer. oh, and another tip is one my boss sorta doesnt like- with big pipe, i dont bother with the brush. pour it out! that will help the joints slip together. most rookies i see use a brush go so slow that the glue sets up! you still should make it neat.... i think you get my drift p.s.- primer BOTH joints....

 

[rambojoe]

how dare you guys make me pull out the code book... if you get called on it by an inspector... i found a few- alot which goes along with accepted and approved and listed terminolgy. and the manufactures specs... when a dummy hits my stubs it never breaks at the joint, i can tell you that.

 

[Adamjamma]

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly use it if required.

some people are just lucky..too many inspectors want to see the primer..lol

 

[growler]

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly
use it if required.

I have never used primer either and have never had a problem with conduit coming apart.

But I have been reading comments from other electricians on other sites and some do suggest that it had been in job specs. My guess would be that some engineers thought that since plumbing pipes need primer that it would make for a better electrical job so they put it in the job specs.

People need to consider the fact that plumbing pipes are under pressure and electrical conduit is not. There will be a certain amount of condensation in the conduit no matter what you do so it's not likely to remain dry.

I think it's a complete waste of time to use primer on electrical conduits but I would read the job specs and contact the local AHJ before running any large amount of PVC these days.

 

[LouisianaApprentice]

i use prime on all pvc, most only use on 1 1/4" or bigger. in a muddy trench you just need to over ex the hole- keep it clean. lots of duct tape...
a baby sledge and a piece of wood helps to terminate pipe. if you keep it clean then you dont need to swab it till its all installed.

dont use a screwdriver on hydraulic connects. to release pressure just reach in the cab and jiggle the controls, even if the machine is off- make sense? i hope i dont need to tell you, make sure all personael are clear of the boom/attachments....

think clean. i keep a pvc coupler (or 2) with one side taped up for capping pipes and fittings. when you tape up a fitting even for a future stub, please- tape the un-sticky side first then finish off with the sticky side...especially on the male pipe. nothing worse than petrified duct tape!!!! that way it just takes a gentle cut to remove, especially when the trench is tight around a stub. that will always bugger up things when installing...

when you get into thousands of feet of pvc then I have more tips for ya and under ground runs can be art work too. especially your turn up racks...

p.s.- always dble check the type of pipe on big jobs. if you use the schedule 80 pile when it should of been 40- your gonna get thumped... alot of wiremen dont take underground very seriously (enough), but it is. it can ruin a job. oh, that's when you use a tracer wire. other than that, youll get good at finding stubs. think of how and where youd run it and what length of pipe. youll find it. and you can usually see where a trench was.

you will fail inspection if the inspector doesn't see evidence of primer...

They don't fail you here in Louisiana and I don't even think my coworker (who is the first one I've seen use it) even knows what it's for as he calls it a cleaner. Its purpose is to etch the surface much like tsp is for painting so it sticks better and I couldn't explain that to him but he's a 30yr electrician that scolds me for pulling plugs out of a hole saw with a screwdriver too because he said that's not what that slots for lmao. I'm okay with finding stubout I just meant finding things like gas lines or fiber with a probe as Dottie rarely has accurate markings here. That duck tape trick is nice I've been doing it for a while. Thanks for tips for some reason this company won't let me use a torch or heat gun and all our smaller pipe ends up getting bowed which is my main reason for having trouble glueing up stuff.

 

[kwired]

to the op. use the dang primer. oh, and another tip is one my boss sorta doesnt like- with big pipe, i dont bother with the brush. pour it out! that will help the joints slip together. most rookies i see use a brush go so slow that the glue sets up! you still should make it neat.... i think you get my drift p.s.- primer BOTH joints....

[/B]

I have never used primer either and have never had a problem with conduit coming apart.

But I have been reading comments from other electricians on other sites and some do suggest that it had been in job specs. My guess would be that some engineers thought that since plumbing pipes need primer that it would make for a better electrical job so they put it in the job specs.

People need to consider the fact that plumbing pipes are under pressure and electrical conduit is not. There will be a certain amount of condensation in the conduit no matter what you do so it's not likely to remain dry.

I think it's a complete waste of time to use primer on electrical conduits but I would read the job specs and contact the local AHJ before running any large amount of PVC these days.

Electrical conduits don't always have the dimension tolerances as other PVC piping may have - they weren't intended to be pressurized I would guess is a major reason. Pipe itself as well as most fittings is usually reasonably consistent diameter, but "bell end couplings" I find to be one thing that varies quite often.

Larger pipe seems to be application worth considering use of slower curing cement to give you longer work time for assembly.

 

[LouisianaApprentice]

I did not intend to turn this into a debate on primer or not. Only time I've seen a coupling break out is when a ditch was backfilled improperly and loose dirt wasn't shoveled under to support the pipes. I don't think any stub up of PVC can withstand a scissor lift running over it if it doesn't crack the coupling it'll kink the pipe anyways. Just wanted to see if there was any secret to this stuff. I think next time I'll just make a jig for the 4 inch when I'm glueing it so it holds it up at the right angle.

 

[david]

I did not intend to turn this into a debate on primer or not. Only time I've seen a coupling break out is when a ditch was backfilled improperly and loose dirt wasn't shoveled under to support the pipes. I don't think any stub up of PVC can withstand a scissor lift running over it if it doesn't crack the coupling it'll kink the pipe anyways. Just wanted to see if there was any secret to this stuff. I think next time I'll just make a jig for the 4 inch when I'm glueing it so it holds it up at the right angle.

We would tape one end of a factory 90 place the other unglued end in a section of conduit, stand in one location using the 90 as a sled and push the conduit. Works real well on 1 ½ and smaller. On larger conduit you may have to reset your gluing location several times depending on how heavy the conduit is to push

On 4 in runs we sometimes would glue the conduit run along the ditch and lay the conduit into the ditch after the joints set. Longer sections of conduit have more flex when the ditch has a curve to it. Either way gluing before laying it into a ditch keeps you out of the muck

When it comes to keeping the conduit plumb we would drive a section of ¾ emt to duck tape to. Or build a temp uni-strut rack, you would need two straps to keep the conduit plumb

 

[cowboyjwc]

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly use it if required.

It would be in the manufacturers instructions.

 

[cowboyjwc]

They don't fail you here in Louisiana and I don't even think my coworker (who is the first one I've seen use it) even knows what it's for as he calls it a cleaner. Its purpose is to etch the surface much like tsp is for painting so it sticks better and I couldn't explain that to him but he's a 30yr electrician that scolds me for pulling plugs out of a hole saw with a screwdriver too because he said that's not what that slots for lmao. I'm okay with finding stubout I just meant finding things like gas lines or fiber with a probe as Dottie rarely has accurate markings here. That duck tape trick is nice I've been doing it for a while. Thanks for tips for some reason this company won't let me use a torch or heat gun and all our smaller pipe ends up getting bowed which is my main reason for having trouble glueing up stuff.

352.24 .....field bends shall be made only with identified bending equipment.

 

[kwired]

352.24 .....field bends shall be made only with identified bending equipment.

I don't bend with a heat gun, torch, or even a Greenlee hot box. My bends (and I assume many others) are done freehand or sometimes with assistance of a field made jig, after heating the conduit to make it bend easier with a heat gun, torch, or Greenlee hot box.

 

[Chamuit]

In the 15 years I've been running PVC pipe I've never used (or been told to use) primer. And I've never heard of any job failing. Maybe we just got lucky? Do you have a code reference on the requirements for primer? I would certainly use it if required.

I used to work in Phoenix. All the AHJs and POCOs require primer and they better be able to see it. Purple primer and grey pipe glue.

 

[kwired]

I used to work in Phoenix. All the AHJs and POCOs require primer and they better be able to see it. Purple primer and grey pipe glue.

Have any idea their justification?

Do they come unglued if they see these fittings in use?



You glue a short piece of 2.5 inch schedule 40 into them and then slip a piece of 2 inch inside it - it is listed that way as an expansion fitting for meter risers.

 

[rambojoe]

south west doesnt worry about frost expansion stuff... only time we use it is roof runs over 100'. but I get the pun, haha... I think the justification is some of these manufactures buy inspectors boats and Alaskan hunting trips... aside from that's what the manufacture requires...

louisanaapp, the word is vulcanizing. how did I know so many would object... it proves that when someone says "in my 20 years ive never..." well, anyway, draw your own conclusion. I started in san Francisco which had unique rules and ended up here with the same thing...don't know why.

I can tell you the manufacture requires the primer- and it ends up welding the joint...try it and compare. so take your broken joint in the 3' trench. sooner or later you will end up on a job with a 12' concrete foundation with 3 cranes, 5 pump trucks and about 950 concrete trucks in 30 hours or so. hard core? a bit. but not as hard core as the hoppers the cranes are dumping concrete on your pipes from about 40', let alone the pump trucks..(the concrete guys NEED the concrete to fill the voids, aint no gentle about it) and steel guys walking on your pvc in the middle of the frame is another story! in big slabs improperly supported pvc floating to the top is a issue- ive seen joints break just from this...that were not primered!

do what thou wilt... its a little odd because I know you guys have pulled joints apart and the cement alone didn't do a darn thing..."well crap, look at that! All the glue just made a ring around the bell!" :/

a waste of time.... goodness. anyhow, 1" and smaller it is not required...but I do it. but we have inspectors that count the stupid threads on RT fittings!

 

[rambojoe]

I don't bend with a heat gun, torch, or even a Greenlee hot box. My bends (and I assume many others) are done freehand or sometimes with assistance of a field made jig, after heating the conduit to make it bend easier with a heat gun, torch, or Greenlee hot box.

I did it once with the exhaust pipe but it took a lOOOONG time! there is also the "hillbilly hot box" but I wont....

im sure im not the only one who has a large pile of burnt pipes of all sizes to his name...with the greenlee of course...

 

[Chamuit]

Have any idea their justification?

Do they come unglued if they see these fittings in use?

View attachment 22228

Yer funny!:lol:

If you ready the instructions that come with pvc cement, they say to clean with primer. (e.g. https://www.oatey.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/howtosolventweld.pdf) That's the reason they want to see the primer.
Here in the Houston area... I have never seen anyone use primer, ever.

You glue a short piece of 2.5 inch schedule 40 into them and then slip a piece of 2 inch inside it - it is listed that way as an expansion fitting for meter risers.

I used to cut sections of 2.5" and use as a slip coupling when repairing 2" underground runs from transformers. The POCO inspectors never said anything. Purple primer all the way!