Question on equip bonding jumper

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Mike Lang

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New Jersey
If I have 3 pipes with 4 500 kcm conductors parralleled A-B-C-N and I want to jump from one bonding bushing to the next then at the end jump to the equip grounding bus I would use a 4/0 based on 1500 kcm right?

So now if I were to have the same setup and run a seperate bonding jumper from each bonding bushing to the equip bonding bus I would only have to use a 1/0 based on the 500 kcm being the largest ungrounded conductor in the pipe regardless if it is parralleled? Is this right?
 
System bonding Jumper

System bonding Jumper

I believe what you are refering to (correct me if i am wrong) this would be a grounding conductor not the grounded conductor?
 
No i'm looking at the sizing for equipment bonding jumpers on the supply side of the service... it's not for a job, I have my exam tomorrow and while reviewing I got a little mixed up and just want to make sure.
 
Sds

Sds

When sizing the system bonding jumper, and grounding electrode conductor per 250.30 it indicates the size to be based on the derived phase conductors (based on table 250.66) but does not list how to address parallel feeders so is it true that the largest system bonding, and grounding electrode conductor would be a 3/0 conductor (copper) required by code? And only the grounded conductor is subject to the 12.5% rule?
 
Mike Lang said:
If I have 3 pipes with 4 500 kcm conductors parralleled A-B-C-N and I want to jump from one bonding bushing to the next then at the end jump to the equip grounding bus I would use a 4/0 based on 1500 kcm right?

So now if I were to have the same setup and run a seperate bonding jumper from each bonding bushing to the equip bonding bus I would only have to use a 1/0 based on the 500 kcm being the largest ungrounded conductor in the pipe regardless if it is parralleled? Is this right?

iwire said:
Service conductors or feeders?

Mike Lang said:
service conductors so i'm looking at 250.66 and using the 12.5% rule for the 1500 kcm

The fault current would never be limited to the ampacity of any set of 500s. . The fault current ampacity is limited by the OCPD on the 1500kcmil. . So building to the 1500kcmil is a good idea but not required.

For service/supply side of main you have 250.102(C) which says at the end, "The size of the bonding jumper for each raceway or cable shall be based on the size of the service entrance conductors in each raceway or cable." and sends you to T250.66. . 500kcmil is 1/0. . You can build better than NEC minimum and choose to size to the full 1500kcmil. . 1500 x .125 = 187.5. . Ch9 T8 lists 3/0 at 167.8 + 4/0 at 211.6. . So for 1500 you would choose 4/0.

For feeder/load side of main you have 250.102(D) which sends you to T250.122. . (3)500kcmil are 380a x 3 = 1140a. . According to 240.4(B) +240.6(A) are we right to assume a 1000a main OCPD ? . T250.122 for 1000a is 2/0.

Side note: . Equipment ground is the same as feeder equipment bonding jumper and needs to be full size in each conduit [250.122(F)].
 
Mike01 said:
When sizing the system bonding jumper, and grounding electrode conductor per 250.30 it indicates the size to be based on the derived phase conductors (based on table 250.66) but does not list how to address parallel feeders so is it true that the largest system bonding, and grounding electrode conductor would be a 3/0 conductor (copper) required by code?

Parallel conductors are addressed in 250.102(C)service/supply+(D)feeder/load.

Mike01 said:
And only the grounded conductor is subject to the 12.5% rule?

250.102(C) applied 12?% for supply side equipment bonding jumpers.
 
250.30(1)

250.30(1)

That is correct for the equipment bonding jumper, however on a SDS if the connection is made at the source (step down xfmr) looking at exhibit 250.13 in the 2008NEC Handbook, this indicates the equipment bonding jumper is the connection between the XO and the case, however the connection from the XO to the ground bar in the downstream device (panel, c.b. etc.) is indicated as the system bonding jumper and according to 250.30 grounding separately derived alternating-current systems 250.30(1) system bonding jumper is sized based on the derived phase conductors and does not mention 250.102( C) until 250.30(2) wich indicated the equipment bonding jumper size where the wire type is run with the derived phase conductors form the source of the SDS to the first disconnecting means. So does this mean that the largest size system bonding jumper (when the equipment bonding jumper is installed at the SDS xfmr) that the largest system bonding jumper required is a 3/0 in each conduit?
 
Mike01 said:
That is correct for the equipment bonding jumper, however on a SDS if the connection is made at the source (step down xfmr) looking at exhibit 250.13 in the 2008NEC Handbook, this indicates the equipment bonding jumper is the connection between the XO and the case, however the connection from the XO to the ground bar in the downstream device (panel, c.b. etc.) is indicated as the system bonding jumper and according to 250.30 grounding separately derived alternating-current systems 250.30(1) system bonding jumper is sized based on the derived phase conductors and does not mention 250.102( C) until 250.30(2) wich indicated the equipment bonding jumper size where the wire type is run with the derived phase conductors form the source of the SDS to the first disconnecting means. So does this mean that the largest size system bonding jumper (when the equipment bonding jumper is installed at the SDS xfmr) that the largest system bonding jumper required is a 3/0 in each conduit?

I hope some of you guys jump in on this one because my first impression is that Exhibit 250.13 is totally screwed up.

The top gray box represents the transformer enclosure, the bottom gray box represents the first OCPD enclosure. . The line in the transformer that's labeled "Equipment bonding jumper" is actually the system bonding jumper [main bonding jumper if it was a service OCPD]. . The line from transformer to OCPD box that's labeled "System bonding jumper" is actually the equipment grounding conductor. . The line in the OCPD box coming from the G grounding bar that's not labeled is an equipment bonding jumper.

Did I get up on the wrong side of the bed or is this Handbook picture completely wrong ?
 
Mike01 said:
That is correct for the equipment bonding jumper, however on a SDS if the connection is made at the source (step down xfmr) looking at exhibit 250.13 in the 2008NEC Handbook, this indicates the equipment bonding jumper is the connection between the XO and the case, however the connection from the XO to the ground bar in the downstream device (panel, c.b. etc.) is indicated as the system bonding jumper and according to 250.30 grounding separately derived alternating-current systems 250.30(1) system bonding jumper is sized based on the derived phase conductors and does not mention 250.102( C) until 250.30(2) wich indicated the equipment bonding jumper size where the wire type is run with the derived phase conductors form the source of the SDS to the first disconnecting means. So does this mean that the largest size system bonding jumper (when the equipment bonding jumper is installed at the SDS xfmr) that the largest system bonding jumper required is a 3/0 in each conduit?

"system bonding jumper required is a 3/0 in each conduit?"
System bonding jumper in a conduit ? . No such thing exists !

If it's in the conduit, it's either an Equipment bonding jumper or an Equipment grounding conductor depending on if it's line or load to the neutral ground/bond point. . Let me explain using exhibit 250.13.

I got another look at exhibit 250.13 and it is unquestionably screwed up !

Equipment Grounding Conductors, Equipment Bonding Jumpers, Main Bonding Jumpers, and System Bonding Jumpers are all closely related but are not the same thing nor are they covered by the same sections in 250.

The starting point would be to determine where exactly the neutral is grounded/bonded in the system. . If it's the service, it will be grounded/bonded by the utility at poles and transformers and even possibly the meterbase, but none of that counts. . The neutral ground/bond to the electrode(s) and the main disconnect enclosure is the Main Bonding Jumper, 250.24(B).

For a separately derived system, you will have a neutral ground/bond to at least one electrode and either the transformer enclosure or the first disconnect enclosure [for an outdoor transformer, you're allowed to do both, 250.24(A)(2) unless this causes the type of issue raised in 250.6(B)]. . In exhibit 250.13 I clearly see this jumper from neutral to building steel electrode and enclosure at the transformer and it's incorrectly labeled "Equipment bonding jumper". . . The neutral ground/bond to the electrode(s) and the transformer or first disconnect enclosure is the System Bonding Jumper, 250.30(A)(1).

Any grounding bar bond to any enclosure with the neutral bar isolated from the enclosure [and all other grounds] is an Equipment Bonding Jumper. . They don't bother labeling that at all in the first disconnect in exhibit 250.13.

When you leave the enclosure that contains the system bonding jumper [which is depicted as the transformer], exhibit 250.13 shows an uninterrupted conductor to a load side enclosure and incorrectly labels it "System bonding jumper". . An uninterrupted conductor from the system bonding jumper enclosure to another enclosure on the load side is an Equipment Grounding Conductor. . For conduit serving as an equipment grounding conductor, a jumper across an expansion joint or from bonding locknut/bushing to enclosure would be called an Equipment Bonding Jumper, 250.102.

The only time that the conductor running from transformer to first disconnect is called an equipment bonding jumper [rather than an equipment grounding conductor] is when the neutral ground/bond to the electrode(s) and enclosure is found at the first disconnect instead of at the transformer. . That conductor/jumper from enclosure to enclosure is on the line/supply side of the enclosure that contains the system bonding jumper when the system bonding jumper is in the first disconnect, 250.30(A)(2).

That last paragraph sounded a little confusing when I read it back to myself so let me try to say it another way:

If you look at 2 different SDS examples and both have a grounding/bonding conductors/jumpers run with the other conductors. . What do you call this wire ?

Example #1 has the neutral grounded/bonded to the electrode(s) and the enclosure at the transformer. . The grounding/bonding conductor/jumper from enclosure to enclosure is on the load side of the neutral ground/bond point and is an Equipment Grounding Conductor, 250.110.

Example #2 has the neutral grounded/bonded to the electrode(s) and the enclosure at the first disconnect. . The grounding/bonding conductor/jumper from enclosure to enclosure is on the line/supply side of the neutral bonding point and is an Equipment Bonding Jumper, 250.30(A)(2).

The problem with exhibit 250.13 playing "loosey goosey" with these terms is that you have to go to a different code section depending on which wire you are dealing with.
Main Bonding Jumper, 250.24(B)
System Bonding Jumper, 250.30(A)(1)
Equipment Bonding Jumper, 250.102
Equipment Grounding Conductor, 250.110

Tell me if my explanation makes sense to you.
 
Last edited:
David,

Main Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a service.

System Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a SDS.

So, if you establish N in the transformer at the panel it needs to be Isolated,

no screw thru the N buss into the enclosure, so in the form of a wire we bring

one from the transformer = SDS = System Bonding Jumper.

What do you think ?
 
benaround said:
David,

Main Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a service.

System Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a SDS.

So, if you establish N in the transformer at the panel it needs to be Isolated,

no screw thru the N buss into the enclosure, so in the form of a wire we bring

one from the transformer = SDS = System Bonding Jumper.

What do you think ?

"Main Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a service."
Yes, N/EGC/+enclosure [250.24(B)]

"System Bonding Jumper = a connection between N/EGC at a SDS."
Yes, N/EGC/+enclosure [250.30(A)(1)]

"So, if you establish N in the transformer ....."
Establish ? If you're saying install a system bonding jumper between N/EGC/+enclosure , then Yes, I still agree. . You "establish" by the connection of the system bonding jumper [wire or screw].

"..... at the panel it needs to be Isolated, .....
Yes, the neutral would need to be isolated at the first disconnect panel

"..... no screw thru the N buss into the enclosure, ....."
Into the first disconnect enclosure, I agree, no screw because your N bond has already been done in the transformer

"..... so in the form of a wire we bring one from the transformer = SDS = System Bonding Jumper."
No, that's where I disagree. . The system bonding jumper was the thing you installed when you said before "you establish N in the transformer". . That was the system bonding jumper wire or screw inside the transformer.

From your transformer to first disconnect is an equipment grounding conductor.
 
Clairfication

Clairfication

Dnem,
Yes what you have posted makes sense, however has there been a clarification, or addendum to this in the 2008 NEC to redefine these conductors? If an inspector indicates this to me and he states that it is in the code if there has been no official clarification or addendum to the code I have no legs to stand on to defend myself other than what is now considered my interpretation of the same code, witch does not fly to well with some inspectors. Now with that being said and using the code as it is written is a 3/0 in each conduit the correct solution?
 
Mike01 said:
Dnem,
Yes what you have posted makes sense, however has there been a clarification, or addendum to this in the 2008 NEC to redefine these conductors? If an inspector indicates this to me and he states that it is in the code if there has been no official clarification or addendum to the code I have no legs to stand on to defend myself other than what is now considered my interpretation of the same code, witch does not fly to well with some inspectors. Now with that being said and using the code as it is written is a 3/0 in each conduit the correct solution?

There's no addendum to the Handbook exhibits because the Handbook isn't part of the code nor is it enforcible. . It doesn't go before a CMP. . It's just the writers own commentary intended to help the user. . You can find mistakes in the Handbook and the pictures it uses. . I did notice that exhibit 250.14 is correct. . One of the things that you see in that exhibit is a equipment bonding jumper from one enclosure to the other. . That would fall under 250.30(A)(2).

The wording of the NEC itself determines what is allowed and required. . For the neutral ground/bond at the service, you need to follow 250.24(B). . For the neutral ground/bond at a non-service SDS, you need to follow 250.30(A)(1).
 
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