Question on Meg Testing?

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Resquivel

Member
Location
Houston
Occupation
Electrician
Meg ohm testing



I would like to discuss Meg-ohm testing, I know this is a touchy subject for alot of electricians and a lot would say it’s not needed and Meg testing is really only done on motors and transformers etc…

But believe it or not it’s really good at testing the insulation of the wiring and I don’t mean just the yellow coated jacket on romex. I mean the flow of electrons/ current through the actual conductor.



I have really tried to do my dudiligence on the Megger and have contacted both Megger and Fluke to go over how the equipment operates and what we use it for in the residential field.

Now we know that Industry standard for romex wiring to be tested is a rule of thumb of double the rating of the voltage of wiring Wich Romex is rated for 600 volts and 1 megaohm is sufficient passing standards also backed by Mike Holt. But we have a Fluke Megger that tops out at 1k v at a total cap at

2.2 gigaohm/2200 megaohm.

When we test brand new wiring it quickly gets to 2.2 Wich is perfect and expected for brand new wiring

And we also know it will be subject to change considering when the circuit goes through the walls, dirt,moisture,staples,backstab connections, poorly made joints all play a factor.



Now considering all these possibilities when we have circuits that are dedicated and we test the connections when they are open and seeing that there is a slow rise and we get 200,256, 300, 150 megaohm testing at 1046v low current then even though the industry says wiring is fine doesn’t mean when we install Arc Fault or Gfcis that it will work properly considering wiring that is not testing out far less than perfect readings on my end. Wich takes us to nuisance tripping especially now that we have to Arc Fault 70 to 80 percent of the panel Wich leads to higher costs and callbacks.



Of coarse none of this was required back then because everything works on just a standard breaker that isn’t for specific arcing or self testing for faults.



And a big part of this conflict comes up due to homes being struck by lightning or the parameters of the home being affected causing surges in the home Wich we know The whole house surge protector helps with but , if anyone has went to as many lightning strikes homes that I have than you would know that the lighting causes a shock to the system Wich can lead to higher resistance on wiring or staples to dig into romex or even blow out.



So please tell me your thoughts or how we can get this to the right hands to be able to really understand how wiring that test at a minimum of 1 megaohm even up to 600 to 700 megaohm work properly on gfci or arc fault devices.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
This type of testing is very over rated....I can remove inches of insulation from the conductors and as long as the bare conductor is not touching anything conductive, it will max out the megger reading.

However it could be useful for conductors and cables that have been damaged by staples or connectors that are too tight, or by high voltage surges that carbonized some of the insulation making it conductive.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
This type of testing is very over rated....I can remove inches of insulation from the conductors and as long as the bare conductor is not touching anything conductive, it will max out the megger reading.

However it could be useful for conductors and cables that have been damaged by staples or connectors that are too tight, or by high voltage surges that carbonized some of the insulation making it conductive.
For sure. I just made a similar comment here: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/advisable-to-recommend-afci-breakers-for-older-homes.2570622/
As I said, meggering has its place but the limitations must be understood.
 

Resquivel

Member
Location
Houston
Occupation
Electrician
And just for you guys to be aware, we perform these test on homes that have been effected by lightning strikes do to the high threshold that is put on the water that can compromise multiple items on the circuit.
 

Resquivel

Member
Location
Houston
Occupation
Electrician
What is affected?
What is the pass/fail criteria?
So when I go to a home that has been affected by a lightning strike I look for signs Wich the obvious is garage door motor damaged, sprinkler system damaged, doorbell system damaged, random tripped arc faults and gfcis throughout the home, so then my next step is to propose options Wich is a three stage process starting with whole house Meg ohm testing and our passing score is 1500 megaohms or 1.5 gigaohms. And anything under that we consider failed and we hold the test button for up to 3 to 4 minutes.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
What is affected?
What is the pass/fail criteria?
So when I go to a home that has been affected by a lightning strike I look for signs Wich the obvious is garage door motor damaged, sprinkler system damaged, doorbell system damaged, random tripped arc faults and gfcis throughout the home, so then my next step is to propose options Wich is a three stage process starting with whole house Meg ohm testing and our passing score is 1500 megaohms or 1.5 gigaohms. And anything under that we consider failed and we hold the test button for up to 3 to 4 minutes.
What does water have to do with any of the above items?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
So when I go to a home that has been affected by a lightning strike I look for signs Wich the obvious is garage door motor damaged, sprinkler system damaged, doorbell system damaged, random tripped arc faults and gfcis throughout the home, so then my next step is to propose options Wich is a three stage process starting with whole house Meg ohm testing and our passing score is 1500 megaohms or 1.5 gigaohms. And anything under that we consider failed and we hold the test button for up to 3 to 4 minutes.
How did you come up with 1500 megohms?
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC

Megger testers accelerate voltage breakdown and destroy your house.

Page 19 may apply to all Damp or Wet locations:

NOTE: Wet equipment is susceptible to voltage breakdown. Therefore, you should use a low-voltage Megger tester (100 or 250 VDC), at least in the early stages of a drying-out run. If a low-voltage instrument is not readily available, slow cranking of a 500-volt tester may be substituted.

Many testers have an additional test range measuring in kilohms (kW). This measurement is typically made at only a few volts, and is the ideal initial measurement to be made on flooded equipment. This range measures below the Megohm range, and can, therefore, provide an actual measurement to use as a benchmark in monitoring the drying process. If a kilohm measurement is obtained, insulation has been thoroughly saturated, but may be reclaimable. Alternately test and dry, watching the readings rise until they reach the Megohm range, at which time higher voltage tests can be safely employed.
 

RichB

Senior Member
Location
Tacoma, Wa
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Inspector
This type of testing is very over rated....I can remove inches of insulation from the conductors and as long as the bare conductor is not touching anything conductive, it will max out the megger reading.

However it could be useful for conductors and cables that have been damaged by staples or connectors that are too tight, or by high voltage surges that carbonized some of the insulation making it conductive.
Agreed--It does have its place but megging just to meg is overrated

We are required to do a "New Circuit Test" --It consists of-- All new circuits of 120 Volt or more with a single circuit length of 2500 Feet or more shall be over 50 MEGs to ground, and all new circuits of 120 Volt or more with a single circuit length of 2500 Feet or less shall be over 50 MEGs to ground. :oops:

Oh, and they are all in PVC with both ends waving in the air. :rolleyes:

As per Buzz LightYear--"It doesn't have to make sense---It's PROCEDURE!"
 
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