We have a crew that disconnects and reconnects power for the Poco on residential properties due to non-payment. The Poco used to do this themselves but like alot of things they are using sub-contractors. One guy was sent to a church (3phase ) that has 2 seperate drops from the transformer because electrician on site needed one drop cut loose, our guy cut the wrong drop then proceeded to cut the other drop and didnt identify any of the wires either time. I cant think of an excuse for this but talking to the guy on the phone it sounded like there was only 3 insulated conductors ( no reference to ground ) would a phase rotation meter be all you need to sort this out. The Poco was called and fixed the problem.and in his defense they only do single phase drops and should have never even been sent to this site, besides all the issues and mistakes that were made if you were called out on a existing sight 3phase drop cut loose nothing marked how would you troubleshoot this as a electrical contractor or the Poco.
Question on overhead service entrance cut and not marked
- Thread starter KWH
- Start date
- Status
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Why are they cutting the drops for disconnection for non payment? That is what the insulating tabs for the meter stabs are for. If no self contained meter the service is often supplied by a dedicated transformer and they usually just pull primary fuses to the transformer. Both methods much quicker, safer and use less resources to do the job.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
As far as troubleshooting it is no different than any other time something would interrupt the supply - like say someone ran a trencher through a service lateral, or even first time connection of service - if phasing is going to make a difference then you need to at very least verify correct rotation when finished. One POCO around here takes guess work out of it to an extent. Every three phase meter base they have has a label indicating phase rotation so they can easily verify what is needed when mother nature takes down a line or something like that happens. If you have corner ground delta or delta with a wild leg then you have more to verify than just rotation.
Not always. We try to serve as many as possible from a bank. Saves money.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
In most of those cases I am guessing you are supplying self contained metering and removal of meter will interrupt service.
If you are supplying larger services that use CT metering, though not impossible to supply multiple services, I am betting most transformers only supply one customer.
How often are you coming back to those particular sized services month after month and disconnecting for non payment and reconnecting same day or within one or two days as compared to how many this is done for involving 200 amp and less single phase customers with self contained metering?
You are correct.
In rural areas, yes. However for banks serving several CT metered services, like large strip malls , you can't just pull the fuses at the pot. You either have to cut it loose or disconnect at the PMT. A rotation meter is a must in these instances. we have to go back correctly. Not long ago we had a customer install a disconnect on the side of their building before we would reconnect their power. They had been cut off a couple of times. We will lock the disconnect in the off position if they have to be cutoff.
It is extremely rare that we have to cut off a customer that has a service that large. Our normal practice is to tell them we are going to cut them off, and tell them to shut everything down, that usually (99% of time) gets us our money. For some reason, they think we won't cut a business off...
I am employed by the same company but the guys who do this work are kinda like a seperate company. I get called on there jobs on occasion like when a meter base needs replaced or somthing along those lines. I am not real sure on there procedures but it is usually only residential and actually meet in the mornings at the Poco and dispatch/schedule is worked out with the Poco. The boots on the back of the meter are used but sometimes they will cut the drop loose. I have been told there are some people who go to some crazy lengths to restore there power including climbing the pole. The service in question was a delta and I believe he was there to kill one drop requested by electrician on job, not for non-payment. The mistake was made and I wasnt sure how you would determine ABC plus dealing with a high leg. The bad part was this is done by Poco but somewhere someone screwed up and sent one of our guys.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I once had to go through cattle feed yard and replace many pole mounted mercury vapor lights as well as fix a few items in the mechanics shop because POCO had a problem they repaired on supply side of metering equipment. They checked rotation before they left but nobody made sure wild leg was in correct position... Ooops.
POCO had me send bill to them, bad thing is every two or three years we used to go through the whole feedyard and fix lights, some just need relamped, some just need new photocell, occasionally one simply needed replaced or wiring needed repairs (all was run in overhead messenger supported cable), and I had just gone through and had everything working a few weeks before this happened.
masterinbama
Senior Member
- Location
- Huntsville Alabama
Yep, just finished an upgrade that had a 15KVA transformer feeding 8 houses.
POCO engineer agreed it was a bit small so they upped it to a 25KVA
- Location
- Massachusetts
When I worked at an amusement park the power company would shut us down between midnight and six AM on a Monday morning. They would open a 13.8 KV air break switch at the property line, lock it with a big red tag.
The parks treasurer asked if I could go and turn it back on.
:lol: I did not. :happyno:hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Cutting a drop loose without marking can be a problem as some POCO's don't always follow a set CW or CCW rotation, a service with a grounded conductor can always be found by checking to something grounded like the metal riser pipe and is a test preformed by most line men when dealing with an unmarked service but this does not tell you what rotation was used before the drop was cut, even using a rotation meter will not tell you what the rotation was before the drop was cut, and about the only way to be sure is to pick one load that must have the correct rotation and only heat up that one load so it can be bumped and if it turns in the correct direction then all is good but if it doesn't then you need to swap two conductors, if dealing with a grounded B then you will need to swap A & B as the grounded B lands on C in the meter base if you have already crimped the drop then just swap at the main, also keep in mind that with CT metering the PT's have to correspond to the CT's so depending upon where the PT's and CTs are located and where the drop is cut this has to be maintained so sometimes it is just easier to re-cut the drop and swap the two conductors.
Some simple things to keep in mind:
Single phase:
The grounded circuit conductor can always be found by checking continuity to the riser pipe or meter base if metal so the other two are always the hots.
Or the grounded conductor can be the smaller of the three conductors but not always.
Three Phase
again the grounded phase or conductor can be found by checking to the riser pipe.
If the service is a Grounded delta (3-wire) the grounded B phase always lands on C in the meter base but lands on B at the main breaker.
Checking a motor load after finding the correct grounded conductor is the only way of being sure you have the correct rotation because if one is wrong they all will be wrong.
With a 4-wire delta finding the B phase is critical as landing 120 volt line to neutral loads on it can burn up allot of loads.
and depending upon where in the circuit the PT's and CT's are located, they must correspond to the correct phase so if phase A PT is on the phase that B ct is on the meter will not read correctly.
Most PT's are installed in the same place where the CT's are, like in the CT cabinet but watch out for pad mount as here the CT's and PT's are installed in the pad which should not be a problem as long as rotation and grounded conductor is found
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Well, you could have offered to show him how to do it.
When I worked at an amusement park the power company would shut us down between midnight and six AM on a Monday morning. They would open a 13.8 KV air break switch at the property line, lock it with a big red tag.
The parks treasurer asked if I could go and turn it back on.
:happyno:- Status