Questions about obligations to per diem, overtime, prevailing wage, ect

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LouisianaApprentice

Senior Member
Location
Forest Hill, LA, USA
I won't list my employer but I'd like to know if I'm being treated right. There's a few things he's done in the last year that seems fishy to me.

With this company we work out of town a lot not out of state but usually 3-5 hours away. He pays 25 a day per diem and only pays riding time one way and only the riding time to the job the first day not to lodging which is another 30 min everyday. He doesn't pay the return trip even though we return to the shop and usually clean off and load up the truck for next week.

He generally gives me an extra 5-8 hours every week as my labor as a helper is cheap an I work overtime but for about 4 weeks I'd work overtime on a prevailing wage job. He would mark me as a laborer for this time and I wouldn't get prevailing wage or overtime. For all other overtime he pays generally. I'm just trying to see if I'm being treated fairly and if this is all legal as it's pretty frustrating and it feels like I'm getting screwed.
 
LouisianaApprentice said:
I'd work overtime on a prevailing wage job. He would mark me as a laborer. I'm just trying to see if I'm being treated fairly and if this is all legal as it's pretty frustrating and it feels like I'm getting screwed.
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LouisianaApprentice said:
Also when he marked me as a laborer on those jobs I did electrical work I pulled wire, wired up devices, installed new feeds, ect.
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I would think that you are getting screwed. You can report your employer but I think there is a limited time frame.
 
If you are a union employee, talk to the union. They will tell you exactly what the contract specifies for when you need to get paid.

As far as legality is concerned, take your gross pay and divide it by the number of hours you are working. If that number comes out to minimum wage or better, they are not violating the law unless you have an employment contract which specifies your hourly pay rate and they are paying you less.

What is more debatable is the definition of working hours. Generally you are working from the second you clock in at the shop/jobsite until you clock out and leave in your personal vehicle. Riding in a company vehicle for several hours (in either direction) sounds like work to me. If you are working out-of-town and staying in a hotel, the ride to/from the jobsite would be commuting and thus unpaid. Per diem for meals or other purposes is not required by law AFAIK. Your hotel costs probably aren't required by law either although I wouldn't accept an out-of-town assignment if the company didn't pay for it.
 
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Coppersmith said:
If you are a union employee, talk to the union. They will tell you exactly what the contract specifies for when you need to get paid.

As far as legality is concerned, take your gross pay and divide it by the number of hours you are working. If that number comes out to minimum wage or better, they are not violating the law unless you have an employment contract which specifies your hourly pay rate and they are paying you less.

What is more debatable is the definition of working hours. Generally you are working from the second you clock in at the shop/jobsite until you clock out and leave in your personal vehicle. Riding in a company vehicle for several hours (in either direction) sounds like work to me. If you are working out-of-town and staying in a hotel, the ride to/from the jobsite would be commuting and thus unpaid. Per diem for meals or other purposes is not required by law AFAIK. Your hotel costs probably aren't required by law either although I wouldn't accept an out-of-town assignment if the company didn't pay for it.
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Ok thank you for your answer now I know why he keeps all his employees off of a contract. So from what you're saying regardless of him saying or it showing I make above minimum wage he can at any time decrease my pay as he sees fit and as long as my yearly earnings are under minimum wage he is safe. Regardless of whether that job is prevailing wage or not.
 
growler said:
I would think that you are getting screwed. You can report your employer but I think there is a limited time frame.
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I couldn't ever report him I wouldn't get rehired in this state anywhere. And it's also been a while since that but it's just frustrating to bust my ass and do things journeyman do that helpers aren't allowed to for safety concerns yet I get paid less than apprentice scale. I guess that's how it goes for non union. I'm not gonna make this a union vs nonunion thread but I really wish the private contractors would be more competitive for their employees.
 
LouisianaApprentice said:
I won't list my employer but I'd like to know if I'm being treated right. There's a few things he's done in the last year that seems fishy to me.

With this company we work out of town a lot not out of state but usually 3-5 hours away. He pays 25 a day per diem and only pays riding time one way and only the riding time to the job the first day not to lodging which is another 30 min everyday. He doesn't pay the return trip even though we return to the shop and usually clean off and load up the truck for next week.

He generally gives me an extra 5-8 hours every week as my labor as a helper is cheap an I work overtime but for about 4 weeks I'd work overtime on a prevailing wage job. He would mark me as a laborer for this time and I wouldn't get prevailing wage or overtime. For all other overtime he pays generally. I'm just trying to see if I'm being treated fairly and if this is all legal as it's pretty frustrating and it feels like I'm getting screwed.
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He is marking you as a laborer on a prevailing job because the rate is lower than an electrician. If you handled a piece of conduit, even to take it to the trash, he is in violation and can be made to pay what an electrician is supposed to be paid per that Davis-Bacon project. And, the feds frown on this. He's legal in the sense he paid the "laborer classification", but if you touched any electrical material during that time, he owes you what the classification is for an electrician. You can find the rates for Davis-Bacon prevailing jobs on the net somewhere. They are different because it's usually the union rate for that particular area your working.

As far as the travel time and per diem, that will usually be negotiated up front when you hire. You can take a deduction on your taxes for travel.
 
Coppersmith said:
As far as legality is concerned, take your gross pay and divide it by the number of hours you are working. If that number comes out to minimum wage or better, they are not violating the law unless you have an employment contract which specifies your hourly pay rate and they are paying you less.
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I missed that this was a prevailing wage job. I will amend my answer from above by saying "take your gross pay and divide it by the number of hours you are working. If that number comes out to the prevailing wage for your job classification or better and they are properly classifying you, they are not violating the law"


"Who must be paid prevailing wage? Generally, under the terms of DBRA-covered contracts “contractors and subcontractors” who perform contract work must pay at least the locally prevailing wages, determined by the U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division (WHD) to apply, according to the type(s) of construction involved in a project, to laborers ..."
 
Gary11734 said:
He is marking you as a laborer on a prevailing job because the rate is lower than an electrician. If you handled a piece of conduit, ​even take it to the trash, he is in violation and can be made to pay what an electrician is supposed to be paid per that Davis-Bacon project. And, the feds frown on this. He's legal in the sense he paid the "laborer classification", but if you touched any electrical material during that time, he owes you what the classification is for an electrician.
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Gary I don't think it goes quite that far. You can have laborers do certain work on an electrical project ( it's very limited ).

You can have laborers carry conduit into a building and you can have them sweep up and trash out (normal laborer type work). None of this requires any tools or skills. You can have laborers dig a trench but you can't have them running conduit in the trench.
 
Talk to your employer, state all the points above. Ask for more than you want/ expect, and find a middle ground, higher than where you're at now..

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growler said:
Gary I don't think it goes quite that far. You can have laborers do certain work on an electrical project ( it's very limited ).

You can have laborers carry conduit into a building and you can have them sweep up and trash out (normal laborer type work). None of this requires any tools or skills. You can have laborers dig a trench but you can't have them running conduit in the trench.
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You can have a laborer do as you do, but dont try and change a electrician to a laborer as this guy was doing. He clearly was trying to get around the classification of electrician to get a better rate. This kid is a electrical apprentice in his normal duties, not a laborer.
 
if its a davis-becan act job isn't it displayed clearly on the first page of the job plans? I also thought the guys pushing the brooms made app wages but I cant remember..
 
rambojoe said:
if its a davis-becan act job isn't it displayed clearly on the first page of the job plans? I also thought the guys pushing the brooms made app wages but I cant remember..
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Laborers hired as such, have a classification.

Electricians, hired as such, have a classification.

The only way an Electrical contractor can get a reduced rate is with an indentured apprentice that is recognized by the feds. Trying to re-classify the helper that is a helper electrician 100 percent of the time outside the prevailing job will not fly. You will end up paying electrician wages if reported.

The feds have seen these scammers for 60 plus years since the Davis-Bacon act was formed.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback I just kinda wanted to know my rights I asked him about my overtime when it happened back then and he said the reason is because u can't pay overtime on prevailing wage jobs.
I've since left him for another company and came back since he's the only one with consistent work. The people that worked there for 40 years told me just to either deal with it or leave.
 
rambojoe said:
if its a davis-becan act job isn't it displayed clearly on the first page of the job plans? I also thought the guys pushing the brooms made app wages but I cant remember..
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Davis- Bacon does not have a Classification for apprentices, However, if you have an apprentice in a Federally recognized school, you can pay at the reduced rate in percentage of the Electrician rate as classified for that project. The labor sheets are posted in the General's trailer but not sure if it has to be in the subs. The front end in the specification books tell the general were to post
 
copy that. Arizona is a bit wishy washy with the whole "right to work" state so who knows.. but i do know that union or non unoin jobs here compete and both win bids.
 
LouisianaApprentice said:
Thanks everyone for the feedback I just kinda wanted to know my rights I asked him about my overtime when it happened back then and he said the reason is because u can't pay overtime on prevailing wage jobs.
I've since left him for another company and came back since he's the only one with consistent work. The people that worked there for 40 years told me just to either deal with it or leave.
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We have gotten that message! All of us. You don't like it here, well......

Join the fraternity!
 
There should be someone on prevailing wage jobs that monitors this. You might be able to slyly bring it to his/her attention that this may need to be looked into.


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