Racing Nomex

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spark master

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cyberspace
We started using race car driver nomex. the stuff is incredable. they make jackets, full suits, socks, underware. it's made to get greasy, and take a beating. They also make a nomex head sock, which covers most of the face, and neck.

any internet race shop has it. very easy to obtain.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
We started using race car driver nomex. the stuff is incredable. they make jackets, full suits, socks, underware. it's made to get greasy, and take a beating. They also make a nomex head sock, which covers most of the face, and neck.

any internet race shop has it. very easy to obtain.
What are you using it for?
 

jim dungar

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Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
PPE for arc flash must carry an ATPV rating suitable for both the incident energy and the 'flash'.
Most fire fighting gear is not Arc Flash (AR) rated.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
"PPE for arc flash must carry an ATPV"

I submit that the problem lies in the requirement and its' administration - and such a position furthers only bureaucratic tyranny, not helping 'safety' one bit.

As written, my "vintage" firefighting suit, made of what feels like 1/4" asbestos cloth and qith a stout aluminum foil face - and the hood that goes with it - doesn't qualify as arc-flash PPE.

Here it is- a protective suit that let me enter pools of vigorously burning jet fuel for extended periods, twice daily ... and it's not 'good enough.'

I've raised the same point about a multitude of other clothing.

It's time to return the responsibility, and the authority, to the employer and the employee. Only they are in a position to make the call as to what is suitable in a given situation. The current position - that everything is determined by paperwork alone - is an abomination.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
... As written, my "vintage" firefighting suit, made of what feels like 1/4" asbestos cloth and qith a stout aluminum foil face - and the hood that goes with it - doesn't qualify as arc-flash PPE.

Here it is- a protective suit that let me enter pools of vigorously burning jet fuel for extended periods, twice daily ... and it's not 'good enough.' ...
I don't think there is any flame that burns anywhere near the temperature of an arc flash, but I would expect that most firefighting gear, other than the SCBA mask and hoses, would pass the arc flash rating at 40 cal if it was submitted for testing.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Yea, that's my point: "think" doesn't count.

Indeed, a perfect, contemporary product doesn't count either- if the lable is damaged or missing.

I also have a real issue with the built-in 'shelf life' that's being assigned to PPE. Everything, from gloves to hardhats, is being deemed 'expired' and the approvals void once the item is (fill in time limit here) old. For example, my 'fall restraint harness' will soon expire - and I've had it out of its' case ONCE in five years.

Ve haf vays zu makin ze safe, kamerad!
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Split hairs all you want, but I cannot imagine asbestos fabric performing worse than any other fabric is any test involving fire, flame, heat, flying molten metal, or anything else associated with arc flash, arc blast, or even explosions.

Have we forgotten what asbestos is? It's a ROCK, for pete's sake, with a melting point way above that of any leather, vegetable fiber, or synthetic fiber. The stuff has some serious thickness, too .... best compared the the doubled-over edges of your thickest canvas tarp.

The same goes for the traditional welders' glass, which was made from mica - another ROCK. Just unprocessed, un treated, unrefined transparent rock trimmed to fit in the holder.

Then again, I bet a good share of our population thinks hamburgers grow on trees, already wrapped in wax paper.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
It's time to return the responsibility, and the authority, to the employer and the employee. Only they are in a position to make the call as to what is suitable in a given situation.

There is no way the 'company' should be allowed to decide if something is good enough. There needs to be third party standards and testing.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
You know, I think this 'third party' stuff has been perverted beyond even the self-interested intent of their marketing departments.

"Third party" certifications were never intended to allow someone to appoint themselves as tsar over us, nor for 'responsible' parties to shuck their responsibiities. I certainly don't recall the election where we appointed a particular anonymous, private-party ASTM committee or UL panel as perpetual 'king' of wire nuts!

Just for the sake of discussion, let's look at some past discussions we've had regarding hard hats. Even, to this day, there are those who impose rules against wearing the 'cowboy' style hats, even though they have the requisite approvals. In a like manner, there are those who get all worried about 'backwards' hard hats, despite proof that such wear has been evaluated and approved by the manufacturers.

One might say "well, you can always set a higher standard." Perhaps- but, if nothing else, the actions described above show clearly that "AHJ's" are quite willing to exercise their discretion when it suits them.

Yet, the 'higher standard' becomes irrellevant when a company chooses to supply the cheapest, least adequate hard hat they can find. So what if the brim is improper, or that it directs rain down the back of your neck, or is falling off all the time ..... heaven forbid you bring your own in, with a better suspension, and more appropriate to the task. They'll piously claim that their dreck 'meets all standards and is perfectly adequate,' while at the same time objecting to your meeting a 'higher standard.'

I've had folks object to every imaginable bit of safety equipment you can imagine, even knee pads. The same jackalopes who objected to my use of rappelling gear for fall restraint (in the days before there were any OSHA requirements) today want my all harnessed up and tied down when I'm on an 8-ft step ladder! (No, I'm not making this up!).

That's why I conclude it has nothing to do with safety at all - "Safety" is simply a blank check used to assert absolute authority over every detail of our lives, by those who would be king.

I don't care how well they cover their tails with paperwork .... it's my ass out there, and I'll reserve the right for ME to make the final decision.

----------

Probably the most egregious examples of this "DIY tyranny" can be found in the crime statistics. Despite countless incidents of folks being harmed by criminals, we still have almost a 'norm' of property owners and employers asserting their 'right' to render you helpless. Yet, when bad things happen, these same parties assert that they can't be held responsible for the actions of a criminal. Just exactly what is the 'higher standard' that they are using?

Again: the motive isn't your safety. Logic and the record prooves that. The inconsistancies make sense only if you accept my theory that it's all about 'control.'
 
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