If you have a small fire in an attic that has damaged 2 or 3 circuits and you have disconnected all associated circuits in the service panel, is there a Standard of Care that requires the electrician to test all other non-associated circuits in the home with a meg ohm meter to find preexisting compromised insulation on conductors well outside the fire damaged area on a different floor of the home.
Re-energizing power after a fire
- Thread starter hotrod71
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
hotrod71 said:
I have a feeling that someone has told you this is the case and you don't want to do it. Most insurers have a defined T+C that you agree to when you take on this kind of work. I would read what you agreed to first.
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
As an inspector- I require a notarized letter from EC stating that the system has been checked or repaired to alleviate the liability on the AHJ. :smile:
wireman2000
Member
Good pointceltic said:
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
I would think that a properly trained, qualified electrician would have the knowledge and tools to effectively accomplish this task. If you positively need a standard (of which I believe there is not a recognized one) try this one.
NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, 2004 Edition
This should help with what to look for- and this one should help with the correct way to repair what needs to be.
National Electrical Code? 2005 Edition (NFPA 70)
NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, 2004 Edition
This should help with what to look for- and this one should help with the correct way to repair what needs to be.
National Electrical Code? 2005 Edition (NFPA 70)
I don't need it...YOU do as the inspector that requires the EC to sign off on liability.barbeer said:
While it's comforting to expect a "trained, qualified electrician to effectively accomplish this task", that is not always the case.
If there is not standard that is recognized, what's the point in the notarized letter? Just to cover your OWN posterior? What good does that do the current HO or subsequent HO?
No offense, but this is BS.
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
I would indeed be open to a better resolution if you would offer one.
Start with this:
If you require the systems be "checked", create/accept a standard that all can follow equally and that can be enforced fairly.
To simply allow a "notarized letter" as sufficient proof and evidence of "checked" is a joke.
A notary's responsiblity is ONLY that the signature is in fact authenticate ..nothing more. The notary has no duty to see that the facts in the document are true(although a person may have to swear to it), just that the signature is true.
"Checking" a system w/o any sort of standard or enforcement is ludicris. What does "checked" even mean? It's anyone's guess.
Introduce NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, 2004 Edition as the standard...of course, you will need some sort of legislation to have it enacted as law - just like the NEC.
If you require the systems be "checked", create/accept a standard that all can follow equally and that can be enforced fairly.
To simply allow a "notarized letter" as sufficient proof and evidence of "checked" is a joke.
A notary's responsiblity is ONLY that the signature is in fact authenticate ..nothing more. The notary has no duty to see that the facts in the document are true(although a person may have to swear to it), just that the signature is true.
"Checking" a system w/o any sort of standard or enforcement is ludicris. What does "checked" even mean? It's anyone's guess.
Introduce NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, 2004 Edition as the standard...of course, you will need some sort of legislation to have it enacted as law - just like the NEC.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Hotrod, what is your role in this scenario?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
barbeer said:
and what code requires this?
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
As an inspection authority, it does not take code to require the letter, it may take a policy set forth.
I also agree the letter that Barbeer requests is a little weak. A fire up in the attic seems to me to possibly create water damage in the floors below the attic as well??
I also agree the letter that Barbeer requests is a little weak. A fire up in the attic seems to me to possibly create water damage in the floors below the attic as well??
allenwayne
Senior Member
I had a similar situation a few years ago during a rainy season.Scenario model home got lightning struck.Small attic fire confined to one area.Can lighting and some other branch circuit wiring was burnt.
The F.D. called the building dept.,that called the elec. dept.That immediately had the POCO pull the meter.Resolution was to have a certified engineering firm have the entire homes wiring meggered and any problems fixed then the fix was inspected and then it had to be meggered again.Then all put back in place for a final inspection.The engineering firm made a bundle we did to the real loser was the insurance company.Final bill was somewhere around $40,000.00 when it was all said and done.
No wonder the insurance rates here are so out of reach !!!!!!!!!
The F.D. called the building dept.,that called the elec. dept.That immediately had the POCO pull the meter.Resolution was to have a certified engineering firm have the entire homes wiring meggered and any problems fixed then the fix was inspected and then it had to be meggered again.Then all put back in place for a final inspection.The engineering firm made a bundle we did to the real loser was the insurance company.Final bill was somewhere around $40,000.00 when it was all said and done.
No wonder the insurance rates here are so out of reach !!!!!!!!!
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
Pierre, I was thinking the same thing while reading this thread. Often there is more water damage than fire damage. How does water affect wiring? How about long term- 20 yrs down the road?
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
If by this you mean the average service electrician NO WAY, (not slamming anyone just stating the facts as I know them)
What is the issue with megging the circuits, easy enough to do and if there is a problem you might avoid the next fire, saving your home owner from a repeat visit.
In our area we are called to do this all the time (by electrical contractors, contractors, or recommended by engineers and insurance carriers), if the inspector requires a letter, I write the letter, if the inspector needs the letter signed by an engineer I submit a report to an engineer he reviews the documentation and writes his own letter submitting my test documentation and the customer pays a few extra dollars.
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
celtic said:
I somewhat agree with you! I can not police the EC to make sure he is doing the job he is getting paid for other than my inspection duties. Being in a small town- I am usually at the fire before the owner or insurance co. is in the building so I have some idea of the damage.
celtic said:
checked, check?ing, checks
To inspect so as to determine accuracy, quality, or other condition; test: checked the brakes and lights for defects; checked out the system to make sure there were no errors in the software.
To verify by consulting a source or authority: checked her facts before speaking.
Guess no more!
I am just an inspector- someone posted a question and I answered it- whether or not you like the answer I can not help. I am following the existing procedure in my department and as you eluded to earlier getting things adopted or changed is not all that easy, before myself I do not believe my municipality had a true electrician as an electrical inspector - ssoooooooo! Baby steps.
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