QES
Senior Member
- Location
- California
do you have to bond to non exposed rebar to ground grid?
Rebar bonding
- Thread starter QES
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Is this for a service or a pool or something else?
QES
Senior Member
- Location
- California
its for a control building
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If this is a new building and there is 20' or more of #4 or larger rebar in a footing that has direct contact with the earth, the rebar must be used as a grounding electrode for the building.
Don
Don
QES
Senior Member
- Location
- California
got a nec section on that?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I believe art. 250.50 would address that.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
...and section 250.52(A)(3) describes the CEE in detail.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
QES,
Don
If is is a service look at 250.50 and if it is a second building look at 250.32(A).
Don
buck33k
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and North Carolina
QES said:
Concerning a rebar CEE, I would say the connection to the GEC could be made above the concrete.
As an example, I have seen the rebar turned up into a wall, where the conection to the GEC is accessable behind a cover plate.
I'm not sure if this is what the OP had in mind.
QES,
I'm still not sure I understand what you are asking. Let me take a stab at it. Does this describe your situation: You have a building that has 20' or more rebar in the footing, but when the footing was poured there was no provision made for making a connection to it and the bar is not exposed now. You are wondering if you need to find a way to connect to it now?
If that is your question, then I agree with Don. The concrete encased electrode is present and 250.50 requires that it be used in the grounding electrode system.
I'm still not sure I understand what you are asking. Let me take a stab at it. Does this describe your situation: You have a building that has 20' or more rebar in the footing, but when the footing was poured there was no provision made for making a connection to it and the bar is not exposed now. You are wondering if you need to find a way to connect to it now?
If that is your question, then I agree with Don. The concrete encased electrode is present and 250.50 requires that it be used in the grounding electrode system.
QES
Senior Member
- Location
- California
the concrete is not pour yet? the problem is the the structural engineer don't want the rebar to be bonding because the building is near salt water. I told them that it must be bonded the rebar+structural steel to the ground grid.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I suggest that you sit down with the structural engineer and read the appropriate code articles.
My take: _IF_ you have something that would be considered a concrete encased electrode, then you _must_ bond to it.
However, to qualify as a concrete encased electrode, the rebar must be bare or have an electrically conductive coating.
Rebar with an _insulating_ coating (say for corrosion protection) is not considered a concrete encased electrode, and therefore does not need to be bonded.
This opinion should, of course, be confirmed by a suitably licensed individual prior to betting money on it
-Jon
My take: _IF_ you have something that would be considered a concrete encased electrode, then you _must_ bond to it.
However, to qualify as a concrete encased electrode, the rebar must be bare or have an electrically conductive coating.
Rebar with an _insulating_ coating (say for corrosion protection) is not considered a concrete encased electrode, and therefore does not need to be bonded.
This opinion should, of course, be confirmed by a suitably licensed individual prior to betting money on it
-Jon
QES
Senior Member
- Location
- California
so does the code said you must bonded the rebar? or you have the option to use the rebar as a electrode?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
QES,
Don
There is no option if there is 20' or more of 1/2" or larger rebar in the footing or foundation.
Don
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
QES said:
The code says that you must bond _all_ available grounding electrodes.
If you have rebar that meets the requirements, then it is considered a grounding electrode. If this is a new pour, then it is considered available. In this situation you _must_ bond the rebar.
However if you specifically do not want to bond the rebar, you simply need to make sure that any rebar you use does not meet the requirements to be defined as a grounding electrode.
You are not required to have a CEE. _IF_ you have suitable rebar, then you are required to bond it. But if you have 'unsuitable' rebar, then it doesn't need to be bonded.
-Jon
In my local area the Ufer Ground to rebar in the slab via an exothermic weld is a requirement, for which non-compliance requires the use of a jackhammer and some choice curse words uttered when the inspector is no longer in ear shot.
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