Recept at the Washing Machine

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infinity

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Okay, plug the washing machine into a receptacle on the laundry circuit and put the sewer alarm on the other circuit.

Here's my thought. There a space in the room that has the washer water connections and waste connection with a receptacle in that space for the laundry. This is fed by a 20 amp laundry circuit as required. Can I plug in a permanently installed/fastened in place sewer alarm into that receptacle or is another receptacle on a different circuit required?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I did a search in 2008 NEC for the word "laundry" and the following articles are all I found containing that word that would apply to a single family dwelling.

210.11(C)(2)
Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.


210.50(C)
Appliance Receptacle Outlets. Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the intended location of the appliance.
This is not really part of the discussion of OP for the most part, but may need some consideration in the discussion.

210.52(F)
Laundry Areas. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry.
there are exceptions to this but do not apply to single family dwellings


As of the 2008 code I don't see where it says what outlets are for the laundry, it just says you need at least one and it shall be supplied by a 20 amp branch circuit. I know some time in the past it was worded that the laundry circuit was allowed to supply other outlets in the laundry area but that wording apparently has been removed at some time. As it reads now it is up to the installer and AHJ to determine what is a laundry outlet, and what outlets are allowed to be supplied by the required laundry circuit.

There were hits in 220.52(B), 220.82, 220.83, 220.84 but these are all about feeder and service calculations and not about the topic of the OP.

There are also hits in 550, 551, and 552 but are not about the topic of the OP, although most are similar requirements of 210 and 220 requirements.

Plus there were hits in annex D and in the index - again not about the topic of OP.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Well is 210.11(C)(1) only requires one then I don't see why a second outlet would require another 1500 VA demand. If I run a circuit to a built in ironing board that has a receptacle and light is that illegal. According to your situation it would be since no other outlet is allowed. If I can install the built in ironing board with recep. & light, then can I have it on a lighting circuit?

There was a big debate here on this forum about the required laundry circuit and the inclusion of a second circuit to the laundry or to another laundry so I made a proposal and the verbiage found in 220.52(A)&(B) was changed from ?required? to ?covered? as it concerns the calculation.
It seems to be the intent of the Code Making Panel that should a second circuit supply either the same laundry or another laundry that both would be calculated at 1500 volt amperes each.

But all this has nothing to do with the installation of a sewage alarm that plugs into the laundry receptacle. There is no mandate as to what can be plugged into that receptacle outlet just that it don?t supply any other outlet but the laundry.
There would be no violation to plugging the sewage alarm in the laundry circuit simply because the receptacle is the outlet not the alarm.

As to installing a circuit that supplies a built-in ironing board and light supplying other outlets is very debatable but it would need to be calculated at 1500 volt amperes.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Here's my thought. There a space in the room that has the washer water connections and waste connection with a receptacle in that space for the laundry. This is fed by a 20 amp laundry circuit as required. Can I plug in a permanently installed/fastened in place sewer alarm into that receptacle or is another receptacle on a different circuit required?

I see your point, as Bob stated you can plug in "whatever" you want; however, I do not believe that the intent of the code was for "whatever" to be used on this circuit.

From the 1956 "At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the connection of laundry appliances" 2112.12. It does not say that you cannot plug "whatever" into the receptacle also, but I do not think the intent was that you should.

Yes I know that only what is written is enforcable and not "intent"

Another current thread commented on why the code gets more complicated every year, this is a classic example.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Why is this so much over thought??? 210.11 C 2 "laundry Branch circuit" states............"at least one 20 amp circuit to feed the laundry recepticial outlet(s)." "this circuit shall have no other outlets". Notice the (s). It means one or more receptical outlets in that room and no other room and no lighting outlets. You can have as many outlets as you want in that room on that circuit. Nothing is mentioned about a washing machine seperate circuit. Nothing is mentioned about GFI circuits. GFI is only required if within 6' of laundry sink or floor slop sink.
 

infinity

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I see your point, as Bob stated you can plug in "whatever" you want; however, I do not believe that the intent of the code was for "whatever" to be used on this circuit.

From the 1956 "At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the connection of laundry appliances" 2112.12. It does not say that you cannot plug "whatever" into the receptacle also, but I do not think the intent was that you should.

Yes I know that only what is written is enforcable and not "intent"

Another current thread commented on why the code gets more complicated every year, this is a classic example.

I agree that we're arguing over the intent and not the code language. I would concur that you can plug anything in to the laundry receptacle, even a fastened in place appliance such as the aforementioned alarm.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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But all this has nothing to do with the installation of a sewage alarm that plugs into the laundry receptacle. There is no mandate as to what can be plugged into that receptacle outlet just that it don?t supply any other outlet but the laundry.
There would be no violation to plugging the sewage alarm in the laundry circuit simply because the receptacle is the outlet not the alarm.

As to installing a circuit that supplies a built-in ironing board and light supplying other outlets is very debatable but it would need to be calculated at 1500 volt amperes.

IMO, any inspector who turned down an ironing board on its' own circuit because it has a light built in needs their head examined. :cool:
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
If the built-in ironing board has a receptacle and light then it is one appliance.

If the built-in ironing board has a receptacle and no light then to add a light to the circuit is debatable.
As an inspector I would reject the inspection based on 210.11(C)(2)

Personally I don?t see where it would be a problem but as an inspector I am to enforce the code not my opinion.
I save my opinion to debate things here and sometimes it is not my opinion that I debate but just the other side of the discussion. :)
 

ActionDave

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Thanks for all the comments.

Here's my thought. There's a space in the room that has the washer water connections and waste connection with a receptacle in that space for the laundry. This is fed by a 20 amp laundry circuit as required. Can I plug in a permanently installed/fastened in place sewer alarm into that receptacle or is another receptacle on a different circuit required?
Here's my question. Can above described receptacle serve another load if I have a circuit to the laundry that serves no other loads?
The sewer lift alarm does not plug in. It is in the lift station control box outside.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
If the built-in ironing board has a receptacle and light then it is one appliance.

If the built-in ironing board has a receptacle and no light then to add a light to the circuit is debatable.
As an inspector I would reject the inspection based on 210.11(C)(2)

Personally I don?t see where it would be a problem but as an inspector I am to enforce the code not my opinion.
I save my opinion to debate things here and sometimes it is not my opinion that I debate but just the other side of the discussion. :)

I would not call a receptacle and a light an appliance even as part of an ironing board. The iron(appliance) is not supplied, however I am just trying to make a point of the situation. There is a receptacle and light that is fed with one circuit. I have seen the same thing in a bathroom with a medicine cabinet. It had a receptacle and a light that lit up around the mirrored door of the cabinet. Another one of those situations that is had to comply with code.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
The built-in ironing board and medicine cabinet comes as a UL listed piece of equipment therefore a self-contained unit or appliance. The receptacle in either cannot count as the required receptacle.

The medicine cabinet receptacle will need to be GFCI protected and the built-in ironing board receptacle will need GFCI protection if it is within 6 feet of a sink.
 

elohr46

Senior Member
Location
square one
In my laundry room both of the receptacles outlets are on the one laundry circuit and the first time my wife tried ironing when the washer was running the CB tripped. How can we think that one circuit is going to handle anything and everything that might be plugged into that circuit, do we just have to wait until the washer stops? I had to run another circuit out there because someone thought is was not required.
 
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jrohe

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Location
Omaha, NE
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Professional Engineer
In my interpretation, if one of the circuits serving the laundry serves only receptacle outlets in the laundry, then you have met the requirements of the Code.

210.52(F) requires at least one receptacle outlet for the laundry. 210.11(C)(1) requires only the circuit serving the receptacle outlet required by 210.52(F) to be rated at 20 amps and to have no other outlets. It does not say that other optional circuit(s) provided in the laundry would also be required to have no other outlets - only the one provided to meet the requirements of 210.52(F).

As a matter of fact, the last sentence of 210.11(C)(1) says, "This circuit shall have no other outlets." The word "this" in the last sentence is singular, meaning only the one circuit is required to have no other outlets. Therefore, any additional circuits in the laundry would be permitted to serve other outlets.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
according to Ray Mullins book on Residential Wiring for the laundry room, you need one circuit for the washer and one circuit for other laundry equip., 1500 va for each circuit.

It does not say that in the NEC which is likely the standard the AHJ is inspecting with.

Why is this so much over thought??? 210.11 C 2 "laundry Branch circuit" states............"at least one 20 amp circuit to feed the laundry recepticial outlet(s)." "this circuit shall have no other outlets". Notice the (s). It means one or more receptical outlets in that room and no other room and no lighting outlets. You can have as many outlets as you want in that room on that circuit. Nothing is mentioned about a washing machine seperate circuit. Nothing is mentioned about GFI circuits. GFI is only required if within 6' of laundry sink or floor slop sink.

I would say the same area and not room. If the laundry room also qualifies as a bathroom or even a kitchen you will still have to have a bathroom circuit or 2 SABC plus your laundry circuit.
 

squaredan

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Why is this so much over thought??? 210.11 C 2 "laundry Branch circuit" states............"at least one 20 amp circuit to feed the laundry recepticial outlet(s)." "this circuit shall have no other outlets". Notice the (s). It means one or more receptical outlets in that room and no other room and no lighting outlets. You can have as many outlets as you want in that room on that circuit. Nothing is mentioned about a washing machine seperate circuit. Nothing is mentioned about GFI circuits. GFI is only required if within 6' of laundry sink or floor slop sink.

That pretty much sums it up IMO..
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
In my interpretation, if one of the circuits serving the laundry serves only receptacle outlets in the laundry, then you have met the requirements of the Code.

210.52(F) requires at least one receptacle outlet for the laundry. 210.11(C)(1) requires only the circuit serving the receptacle outlet required by 210.52(F) to be rated at 20 amps and to have no other outlets. It does not say that other optional circuit(s) provided in the laundry would also be required to have no other outlets - only the one provided to meet the requirements of 210.52(F).

As a matter of fact, the last sentence of 210.11(C)(1) says, "This circuit shall have no other outlets." The word "this" in the last sentence is singular, meaning only the one circuit is required to have no other outlets. Therefore, any additional circuits in the laundry would be permitted to serve other outlets.

This exception found in 210.23(A) seems to imply that there can be more than one circuit and if there is more than one circuit that it can only supply the laundry area.

Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
I'm know English major but I see no implication. The word "circuits" rather than "circuit" is used because it is part of a collective list.

In addition 210.11(C)(2) is titled Laundry Branch Circuits but says only one is needed.

It doesn?t say that only one can be provided but says that at least one shall be provided. As many as is wanted can be provided and when more than one is provided all must abide by the same rule as the one that shall be provided.

All that are provided must be calculated at the same 1500 volt amperes as outlined in 220.52(B).
 
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