Receptacle placement

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ElectricFuzz

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I recently roughed in a row of 5 townhouses. When I was finished, I called the inspector to come through it. Everything checked out, except one thing, and it's been bothering me.
At the top of the stairs on the second level, a hallway starts to your left. The inspector told me I needed to add a receptacle on the wall at the top of the stairs. I told him there was one around the corner down the hall approximately 10 feet away. He said I need one at the top of the stairs because the intent of the hallway rule was to keep the cord or whatever is plugged in from damage as it wraps around corners. He kept mentioning if someone is using a vac. on the stairs, they would be putting stress on the cord as it went around corners. What's your opinion?
 
The inspector referred me to 210.52 (H). He stated the intent of this section was to reduce or eliminate the wear and stress on a cord.
 
I would solve this with a fast phone call. Ask him to open up his code book and read it nice and slow to you. Give him the chance to back down before going over his head. It only says if the hall is 10 feet or more that you need a receptacle. It says nothing about corners or stairs. Nothing even gray about this. You need a receptacle for the hall not the stairs. If your hall was 9 feet 11 inches you do not even need one. Ask him what he thinks he could do if the hall was under 10 feet. I am thinking he has forgot to read it. I would not back down to him.Just leave him a way out of having egg on his face.
 
ElectricFuzz said:
He kept mentioning if someone is using a vac. on the stairs, they would be putting stress on the cord as it went around corners.
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That is a reasonable design consideration. But that fact does not cause it to become a code requirement. This might be a good time to invoke "Charlie's Rule," if Jim's suggested face-saving option does not work out for you.
 
ElectricFuzz said:
The inspector referred me to 210.52 (H). He stated the intent of this section was to reduce or eliminate the wear and stress on a cord.
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How is that the intent? If the hallway is under 10' long it's not required to have a receptacle. Over 10' long requires at least ONE receptacle. There are no spacing requirements. If the hallway was 100' long the receptacle, by code, could be at one end making it 99' from the other end of the hallway.
 
One around the corner down the hall approx. 10' away would not be meeting the requirements of 210.52(A)(2)(1). Maybe it's a landing and then the AHJ is considering it wall space, whether at the bottom or the top, the end of the stairs being the beginning of the wall space. Just a thought.
 
marti smith said:
One around the corner down the hall approx. 10' away would not be meeting the requirements of 210.52(A)(2)(1). Maybe it's a landing and then the AHJ is considering it wall space, whether at the bottom or the top, the end of the stairs being the beginning of the wall space. Just a thought.
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210.52(A) doesn't apply to hallways or stairs. 210.52(H) applies to hallways. There is no requirement for receptacles on stairs.
 
210.52(H) states in part "the hall length shall be considered the length along the centerline of the hall..." . This seems to imply that the code anticipates that the hall in question may have corners and turns. If a hall is straight without turns it doesn't matter whether we measure down the centerline or along one wall. As others have said, without a local amendment, the inspector is going beyond code requirements.
 
The inspector needs to understand that the requirements of NEC often do not meet the needs of the end user. That is up to the owner to deside how far above NEC they wish to go. Is not his job to do anything more than inforce what the code requires.When he crosses that line he is now being inspected as to his ability to inspect. Very few times have I needed to go over the inspectors head.Most will take a second look at the situation and either direct you to a section that proves them correct or will back down and pass you.If you don't fight back then that is your fault. They are human and make mistakes same as us. This case is so simple to win that it makes me wonder how this inspector got hired to start with.Take the first step in calmly calling him. Would put money on him backing off fast.
 
I always like a good argument! Especially when I know I'm right. There is no grey area here. As others said, do it calmly when talking to inspector. When I fail someone and they apologize for arguing I tell them it's there right to and welcome the discussion. It's only when they get pissed off is when things don't go so well for them.
 
marti smith said:
One around the corner down the hall approx. 10' away would not be meeting the requirements of 210.52(A)(2)(1). Maybe it's a landing and then the AHJ is considering it wall space, whether at the bottom or the top, the end of the stairs being the beginning of the wall space. Just a thought.
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Then the landing must comply with:

(A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).
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before the receptacle requirements apply. If the landing is in the hallway is it not part of the hallway and not one of the spaces mentioned in 210.52 A?
 
What if the landing is at the top or bottom of the stairs, or both, and begins wall space, or is 2 ft or more of usuable, uninterrupted wall space? Then those requirements apply IMO, which was what I was referring to previously. Not considering it a hall here, considering it wall space at the beginning of the end the stairs, whether top or bottom.
 
marti smith said:
What if the landing is at the top or bottom of the stairs, or both, and begins wall space, or is 2 ft or more of usuable, uninterrupted wall space? Then those requirements apply IMO, which was what I was referring to previously. Not considering it a hall here, considering it wall space at the beginning of the end the stairs, whether top or bottom.
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That area is covered by 210.52(A). I don't think this is a what the OP is describing, and I don't see anything to back up his inspectors claim.
 
A hall or landing is simply not a room . If it is 10 feet or longer it needs a receptacle, simple as that. Stairs do not require a receptacle and are not part of a hall or landing. Good design will deal with the issue and in upscale homes i am sure it will be on the print. Low end homes and apartments will not likely give you anything they can get out of. Inspectors must wear a hat unlike that of the EC or GC. They indeed do not have what looks like an easy job. They must forget about how they would done it or what they want to see. The inspectors we see on this forum usually are trying to apply NEC . Sadly we hear far too often about ones like the OP has and ones that have that NOT IN MY TOWN attitude. All up to us as electricians as to if we let them get away with it or not. When they find out your a fighter they will be far more carefull about tagging.Not suggesting you try to cause arguments but fight each and every wrong call. It does work.
 
marti smith said:
What if the landing is at the top or bottom of the stairs, or both, and begins wall space, or is 2 ft or more of usuable, uninterrupted wall space? Then those requirements apply IMO, which was what I was referring to previously. Not considering it a hall here, considering it wall space at the beginning of the end the stairs, whether top or bottom.
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wall space is for rooms not halls. Has nothing to do with the 2 foot or 6 foot rule. Same as bathrooms do not come under rules of rooms.
 
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