Receptacles at railings

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ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
210.52 views open railings (such as those found near stairways) as wall space for the purpose of required receptacle outlets.

Installers: Do you achieve this through a floor receptacle? Do you achieve this through a receptacle in the stariway?

Inspectors: Do you allow a receptacle in the stairway?
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Receptacles at railings

I would not want to put a receptacle in the stair way as it would be close to the top tread and would be a very big hazard to someone tripping over a lamp cord and falling back down those same stairs that they worked so hard getting up.

But I do install floor receptacles.

OK I'm a little mellow :roll:
 
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gwz2

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: Receptacles at railings

How many installers install gem ( 3" x 2" x ?" device box, T314.16(A)) boxes in the floor for a dwelling floor receptacle ?

Was visiting an aquaintance in a near-by community and he took me to see his daughters' new house under construction. That is what was used.

Told him it was a violation.

Noticed some, 314.16 box fill, violations also.

Think he ignored the comments.

I imagine that it passed 'rough' inspection .

gwz2
 
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earlydean

Senior Member
Re: Receptacles at railings

Receptacles in the stairway are not a code violation, but, as noted, they might not be such a good idea from a tripping point of view.

210.52 (A) requires receptacles within 6 feet of any point along the walls in kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similiar area in dwelling units. Receptacles in hallways and stairways are not required unless the hallway is over 10 feet in length.

Floor receptacles are counted only if they are within 18 inches of the wall.

Any receptacle in the stairway would not count as being in the room served.
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: Receptacles at railings

If the railing is along a loft type area that would allow it to be considered a living area then spacing would have to be met.Floor boxes meet the requirements,within 18 ins. of the railing
 
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wayne123

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Receptacles at railings

What if the railing around the loft has a finished hardwood floor and the underside of that floor is an open ceiling( post and beam construction). This would be an unsightly installation from underneath the loft.
 
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gwz2

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: Receptacles at railings

Wouldn't it be the architect's problem to beautify the proper installation of a floor box ?
 
tonyi

tonyi

Senior Member
Re: Receptacles at railings

Originally posted by wayne123:
What if the railing around the loft has a finished hardwood floor and the underside of that floor is an open ceiling( post and beam construction). This would be an unsightly installation from underneath the loft.
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If the architect/designer coordinates with the electrician ahead of time, it would be trivial to simply elevate the railing a few inches and mount it on a nicely finished boxed in affair that could enclose ordinary boxes/recepticals just above floor level. Problem solved, no special methods or materiels needed, and stuff won't roll off the edge and drop down the stairs anymore.
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: Receptacles at railings

You can also hog out the top of a beam, run some pipe, and come up into the floor box when you lay the floor. It looks sweet when it's done and it gets the job done.
 
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gwz2

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: Receptacles at railings

The floor boxes that I've seen that meet 314.27(C) usually would require the " whole beam " in width and much of the depth of a beam.

I see no one addressed the ' device box ' comment.

I like tonyi's suggestion.

The required outlet(s) of 210.52(A) in a situation like this needs pre-planning to avoid the dreaded 7 P(s).

gwz2
 
tonyi

tonyi

Senior Member
Re: Receptacles at railings

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Um...NO! :D

When you've seen joists crack where they were drilled and it was done well within all the supposed guidelines, you gotta wonder.

What would be so horrible about a pylon sticking up between ballusters somewhere? Cover up the wire with a piece of cove along the top of a joist if its exposed underneath.

Lots of ways to do this without resorting to wholesale wood removal.
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Guest

Guest
Re: Receptacles at railings

I'm talking about a 5/8" channel in the top of the beam. If the beam is oversized by 5/8" it should be OK. Get the engineer to stamp it. Get the inspector to sign off before the pipe is covered up. I'm also assuming the floor is thick enough to take the box. If not, a dutchman can be added to thicken the floor.
 
tonyi

tonyi

Senior Member
Re: Receptacles at railings

Originally posted by awwt:
I'm talking about a 5/8" channel in the top of the beam. If the beam is oversized by 5/8" it should be OK. Get the engineer to stamp it. Get the inspector to sign off before the pipe is covered up. I'm also assuming the floor is thick enough to take the box. If not, a dutchman can be added to thicken the floor.
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OK, I see what you mean - I thought you were going to notch the beam for the box. Still, a 3/4" ply/OSB subfloor with even 3/4" flooring isn't much thickness to work with. 5/4" flooring would be a lot more comfortable, but that stuff is rare and very expensive these days (and if it ain't quartersawn, there's going to be cupping issues). Most people seem to be going with that thin stapled down crap even in high end places.
 
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wayne123

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Receptacles at railings

There are no architects on this job.This is a log cabin kit that has already been erected. The T&G pine flooring has already been installed as part of the kit. Toni, I like your idea about putting a chase so to speak under the railing. I think that would be attractive from the floor below and pretty much unseen on the loft.I'll have to sweet talk the owner and see what he says.Thanks
 
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