Receptacles at residential sinks

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jpeer

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Location
Cape Coral, Fl
Second try - someone edited my question out of existence. I am a new Inspector. I have 16+ years as a journeyman in commercial construction. Now I am inspecting residential dwellings wired by "technicians". Last Friday I found two receptacles and a switch in the back-splash directly behind the kitchen sink. I suggested that receptacle spacing was off, because NEC requires receptacles on the countertop within two feet of sink and the sink is referred to as a "break" in a countertop. The senior inspector agreed with me, but felt that all that would happen is two more receptacles would be added - the ones over the sink would remain since they were in a cultured marble back-splash. I then suggested that it was a "damp location". Senior inspect said that it didn't match the examples of damp location in article 100. I then found a receptacle directly over the bathroom sink. Senior Inspector did not issue any violations for this inspection. I spent the next hour in the code book and could not find any prohibitions against receptacle placement in a dwelling unit except in showers and over bathtubs. I think a receptacle over a sink is dangerous, even if the GFCI worked 100% of the time (I wouldn't bet my life on that). My wife thinks it stupid - "who would ever us a receptacle over a sink?". Did I miss something in the Code that I can use to stop this or am I just being paranoid? What do you think?

[ July 18, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: jpeer ]
 
roger

roger

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Fl
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Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

Were you going to ask a question?

Roger
 
B

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

For whatever reason, the code does not prevent receptacle outlets form being installed directly behind sinks or even cooktops / ranges. As you have stated, this could be a potential hazard and probably should be avoided even though not specificaly prohibited by the NEC.

I also think calling a receptacle near a sink a damp location is a little extreme.
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

I agree with what Bryan has said, nothing in the NEC prohibits this.

If you could have, what would calling it a damp location have done for you? :confused:

[ July 18, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
L

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

It sounds like your Senior Inspector made the right call.

Scott,
I can't read your mind, but the words "cuckoo" would be a guess. (not that I think you are cuckoo)
Todd
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

Please understand that the NEC has nothing to do with ?good idea? or ?best design practices.? It only relates to safety. Also, let me take this opportunity to once again present, ?Charlie?s Rule of Technical Reading?:

It doesn?t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn?t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don?t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.
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M

macmikeman

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Location
Planet macmikeman
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

Ok I am ready to get flamed again, but here goes. 2002 nec article 210.8 (7) wet bar sinks- where the receptacles are installed to SERVE the COUNTERTOP SURFACES and are located within 1.8 m (6)ft of the outside edge of the wet bar sink. I have always read this to mean receptacles located not up on the countertop but within 6 feet horizontal of the wet bar sink edge DO NOT require the gfi protection. But I also have noted the exact wording includes the phrase AND ARE located within (6 ft). Did I read this wrong?
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

As long as you can remove the device it is ok to have it behind the sink,not a preferable location but allowed.As far as i am concerned it wouldn`t be part of spacing requirement since the sink itself starts the measurment area.
 
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bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

Where in the code does it say that the space behind a sink can't be counted as a part of the wall space for the countertop receptacles? As I can see the benefit of using the sink as a break, I don't see how it can be enforced as a break in the countertop.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point 1: The kitchen sink is not a ?wet bar sink.? Therefore, 210.8(A)(7) is irrelevant to your original question. I think that in your second question, you might have changed subjects, but I wanted to clarify this issue.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point 2: Articles 210.8(C)(1) and (4) tell me that the countertop areas to the left and right of the kitchen sink must have a receptacle, if either is more than 12 inches wide. But they do not prohibit the installation of a receptacle over the sink. The senior inspector is right, in that the receptacle over the sink would not count toward the fulfilling requirement, and that additional receptacles might be needed. The senior inspector is right again, in that, no matter how bad an idea it may be to install a receptacle over the sink (and I agree with your wife on this point, it is stupid), it is not explicitly prohibited by code. Therefore, it is allowed by code.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point 3: Since 210.8(A)(7) does include the phrase ?and are,? both the statement before the phrase and the statement after it must be true, for the article to apply. I infer that your second question is dealing with a receptacle at ankle level (not above the countertop), and located within 6 feet horizontally from the edge of the sink. Would that receptacle require GFCI? The issue is whether a receptacle located near the floor was intended to ?serve the countertop.? I would say ?no,? but I would recognize that this would be the Inspector?s call. So my answer is that you are not reading this article wrong.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Staff member
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Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

Originally posted by bphgravity: Where in the code does it say that the space behind a sink can't be counted as a part of the wall space for the countertop receptacles?
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210.52(C)(4). The space to the right, and the space to the left, are ?separate countertop spaces.? That causes the space above the sink to not be counted as countertop space. JMO. :)
 
A

a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: Receptacles at residential sinks

In all my years of laying out kitchens the first thing I have done was lay out the sink,fridge and stove theses are void area`s.All measurments are taken from the outer edges of these items,within 24 ins. comes to mind.Then 4 ft after that....Same as the start of a counter.Any within these areas are just there,if accesible to service then ok.BTW I wont let one go behind a range or cooktop to hot there.
 
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